Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

danluu.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 310 posts

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#271

Post by Hydraulix989 »

geebee wrote: post #246
goostavos wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Probably universities are dumbing down requirements for $$$. I 100% believe this is true. When I was in college it was pretty staggering to see my fellow classmates receive passing grades and get shoveled through the programs despite never grasping the basic fundamentals of CS. These were people who, at the end of CS 101, still couldn't tell you the difference between a string and an int, who after CS 202 _still_ co…

Is this really true? At Berkeley and other UC schools, the programs are often "impacted", meaning they are looking for reasons to kick people out (or, more likely, deny them entry in the first place). A bad early semester with a C in physics and B- in calculus (not at all uncommon at places with less grade inflation) can spell the end of your CS major. People get bounced from this degree all the time. Just for the re…

Cornell was the same way, our first semester weed-out calculus class MATH 1910 was "curved" to a B- median grade.

At the end of freshman year, everyone who wanted to major in CS had to apply to gain entrance into the CS degree program.

If you got a C in weed-out calculus, you were in troubled academic standing, and you would have to retake MATH 1910 until you got the B-, otherwise you wouldn't get accepted into the CS major.

Other majors had similar, and often less-stringent, degree requirements.

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#272

Post by blackflame7000 »

geebee wrote: post #246
goostavos wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Probably universities are dumbing down requirements for $$$. I 100% believe this is true. When I was in college it was pretty staggering to see my fellow classmates receive passing grades and get shoveled through the programs despite never grasping the basic fundamentals of CS. These were people who, at the end of CS 101, still couldn't tell you the difference between a string and an int, who after CS 202 _still_ co…

Is this really true? At Berkeley and other UC schools, the programs are often "impacted", meaning they are looking for reasons to kick people out (or, more likely, deny them entry in the first place). A bad early semester with a C in physics and B- in calculus (not at all uncommon at places with less grade inflation) can spell the end of your CS major. People get bounced from this degree all the time. Just for the re…

"A bad early semester with a C in physics and B- in calculus (not at all uncommon at places with less grade inflation) can spell the end of your CS major." Which is terrible because the amount of physics a software engineer will use is non-existent.

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#273

Post by SixSigma »

el_benhameen wrote: post #237
SixSigma wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I found even worse in the job market is that the job requirements say CS Degree but the job description doesn't match. I've ended up going to University to get a degree because I was being screened out of job applications before my experience counted for anything.

Mind if I ask where you went and whether you found it valuable (in terms of both knowledge gained and screens passed)?

I'm doing a degree in Supply Chain Management focusing on Computational Logistics.

I really didn't want to sit through a CS degree either learning stuff I know already or stuff I know won't be much use in industry.

So I chose a tangential discipline and am enjoying it thoroughly, being a bridge between Operations and IT provides real value to an organisation.

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#274

Post by mafribe »

phkahler wrote: post #236
mafribe wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with all that, and in my experience, students really react well to courses and coursework based on doing games. And yet, I will use Fibonacci as introductory example tomorrow when I teach "Intro to computational complexity" this week. The great advantage of Fibonacci over just about anything else is that it is so short, so simple, that everybody can immediately understand it. There is no preparation needed. J…

>> And yet, I will use Fibonacci as introductory example tomorrow when I teach "Intro to computational complexity" this week. The great advantage of Fibonacci over just about anything else is that it is so short, so simple, that everybody can immediately understand it. There is no preparation needed. Just about anybody who can breath, can understand Fibonacci. Despite this simplicity, Fibonacci is so rich: You can us…

Thanks for reminding me of the O(log(n)) algorithm. I had forgotten about it. Just added this algorithm to the lecture slides. I I start with the recursive algorithm because it follows directly from the definition F(n+2) = F(n) + F(n+1). I also think there's a big schism in programmers: between those that think recursively, and those that are of a more iterative bend. I'm in the former camp, probably owing to the fact that my first programming language was Scheme.

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#275

Post by morenoh149 »

markbnj wrote: post #200

Being a physician or attorney confers additional compensation in the form of social status and prestige which I think it's fair to say we don't get by virtue of working on code. I also think that as a general rule there is a fairly small percentage of people who like programming, and can sit in front of a computer and focus on code for hours at a time and consider that a fulfilling way to make a living. I doubt that…

Social status and prestige is all in our minds. You can code and be very respected in society if you act that way. The problem is that the type of work attracts (filters?) for introverted behavior. The folks that aren't going out and being flashy.

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#276

Post by phkahler »

mafribe wrote: post #274
phkahler wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> And yet, I will use Fibonacci as introductory example tomorrow when I teach "Intro to computational complexity" this week. The great advantage of Fibonacci over just about anything else is that it is so short, so simple, that everybody can immediately understand it. There is no preparation needed. Just about anybody who can breath, can understand Fibonacci. Despite this simplicity, Fibonacci is so rich: You can us…

Thanks for reminding me of the O(log(n)) algorithm. I had forgotten about it. Just added this algorithm to the lecture slides. I I start with the recursive algorithm because it follows directly from the definition F(n+2) = F(n) + F(n+1). I also think there's a big schism in programmers: between those that think recursively, and those that are of a more iterative bend. I'm in the former camp, probably owing to the fac…

>> and those that are of a more iterative bend

And that would be me ;-)

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#277

Post by clifanatic »

asdf742 wrote: post #21

Does anybody else think the salaries are a little high? Perhaps the sample size is skewed? I'm somewhat senior in software engineering, but I literally don't know a single person making over 200k. Nada. Not one. I also don't know any college grads who started making 150k. That seems absurd, unless you're only looking at certain companies and top performers or something.

I'm going to be pretty upset if these salaries aren't at least a little high, because I'm nowhere near that even after 25 years experience and a master's degree.

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#278

Post by clifanatic »

joeblau wrote: post #28

> Programming also doesn’t have a licensing body limiting the number of programers, > nor is there the same prestige filter where you have to go to a top school to > get a well paying job. This is my favorite quote from this article. I went to a great school and even though it wasn't Berkley, Stanford, MIT, or CMU, that qualification has never limited my ability to get great opportunities.

> that qualification has never limited my ability to get great opportunities

That you know of.

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#279

Post by cestith »

vonmoltke wrote: post #267
jasode wrote: post #10

If there's a pronounced bimodal distribution, it seems like the biggest driver of it would be the lumping of various programmer specialties into one giant bucket. It seems like the 2 sub-buckets would be: 1) $100k or less: backoffice programmers where software itself is not the product sold. Also known as enterprisey/LOB/CRUD developers working outside Silicon Valley. (E.g. programmer working on mortgage servicing so…

Where are programmers working for a "tech" company that is not in Silicon Valley?

It depends on how you define "tech" I guess. There are lots of companies I'd call tech companies that are either headquartered elsewhere or have branch offices elsewhere that include programmers.

Which of these don't have programming jobs at "tech" companies? Seattle (Microsoft and Amazon)? San Francisco isn't technically in the valley... Phoenix (GoDaddy)? Austin (Blizzard, a bunch of non-HQ offices like eBay, Google, Amazon, HP...)? San Antonio (Rackspace)? Armonk (IBM)? Malta, NY (Global Foundries)? Lockport, NY (Yahoo)? Amsterdam (Booking.com)? Houston (cPanel, Practice Insight, AlertLogic)? NYC (Fog Creek, regional offices for Google, Amazon, Facebook, etc)? Raleigh, NC (RedHat)? London (Canonical, Avanti Communications)? Portland (Puppet, some jobs for nVidia, Wacom, Mozilla...)? Boston / Cambridge ( Carbonite, Akamai, LogMeIn, Draft Kings, Wayfair, TripAdvisor ... with offices for Amazon, IBM, Google, Apple, Microsoft, Twitter, PayPal... )? Dallas / Fort Worth and their metro sprawl ( Texas Instruments, AT&T, MetroPCS, Ericsson, Intuit, Match.com, offices of ZTE, US headquarters of Blackberry ...)?

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#280

Post by cestith »

warfangle wrote: post #20
ghaff wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect even more so. Top school, law review, good federal clerkship, white shoe New York firm and everyone else. (Of course, that's a gross oversimplification. There are lots of lawyers with, e.g. solid in-house corporate counsel jobs. But the overall "commodity" market for lawyers isn't great these days.)

And there are many lawyers who work on social issues like tenant advocacy that make a whooole lot less than, say, an M&A lawyer.

Many of them even work for local governments rather than in commercial firms.
Post reply on HN