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David Cameron announces resignation

theguardian.com

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Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#271

Post by ThatGeoGuy »

CM30 wrote: post #156
geff82 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutely right, while I am, too. Of course there are progressive, far thinking elderly people and I enjoy being around them. I recently talked to a 71 year old who is into fractal programming and wants to get into Linux, soon (all while being politically liberal). But the elections and polls show always the same picture: the older people get, the more conservative/right wing they vote, which is often not wh…

Well, it'd help if the younger generation actually bothered for things instead of complaining about them on social media. Less online petitions, more going down to the ballot box. If they were represented in the vote, more politicians would listen to them. But they currently don't because the older generations actually show up on voting day.

This is disingenuous. Blaming millennials for not showing up at the poll is a strawman argument, as the vast majority of younger folk did show up (80% turnout ages 18-24)[1]. Sure, it's less than the 95+% of people 60 and older, but there's a hell of a lot more baby boomers than there are millennials. The problem isn't as simple as "young people don't vote".

[1] http://graphics.wsj.com/brexit-whos-voting-what/?mod=e2fb

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#272

Post by Ntrails »

bkor wrote: post #204
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet unemployment is only 5.6%.

In Netherlands they changed the way unemployment is measured. Was something similar done in UK? The change it Netherlands makes me not trust easy figures anymore. Further, seems in UK there's quite a big difference between working and actually having enough to live comfortably. A lot rely on support or barely can afford anything. Anyway, that is my impression and don't mind being proved wrong.

"Further, seems in UK there's quite a big difference between working and actually having enough to live comfortably. A lot rely on support or barely can afford anything."

I mean, working is not the same as working full time. I couldn't live on 16 hours a week at minimum wage. I could live on full time minimum wage (though not easily if I were still London based). There are benefits and support available to working people, but not in the sense that it's a bad thing.

Unemployment only counts people actively looking and not employed at all - but the ONS publishes all those definitions. There hasn't been any new/recent fiddles that I recall.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#273

Post by qdog »

oldmanjay wrote: post #249
junto wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

George Bush springs to mind. Though maybe he actually was a patsy.

Let's be fair here. Liberal bias requires people to either believe anyone with conservative leanings MUST be stupid or the received wisdom that liberal philosophies are naturally correct must be incomplete. There's no real choice here, every single person on earth will assume everyone else is stupid before assuming they may be wrong.

That's the exact opposite of liberal, "open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values."

There are plenty of intelligent people in all parties, disagreeing with them doesn't make them idiots. Greenspan comes to mind, I think his basic market beliefs are wrong, but don't think he's an idiot, I have read his book. GW is a lot closer to idiot level because of his demeanor AND his actions, but let's be serious few actual idiots make it that far, just not all of them are way above average intelligence.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#274

Post by CM30 »

ThatGeoGuy wrote: post #271
CM30 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it'd help if the younger generation actually bothered for things instead of complaining about them on social media. Less online petitions, more going down to the ballot box. If they were represented in the vote, more politicians would listen to them. But they currently don't because the older generations actually show up on voting day.

This is disingenuous. Blaming millennials for not showing up at the poll is a strawman argument, as the vast majority of younger folk did show up (80% turnout ages 18-24)[1]. Sure, it's less than the 95+% of people 60 and older, but there's a hell of a lot more baby boomers than there are millennials. The problem isn't as simple as "young people don't vote". [1] http://graphics.wsj.com/brexit-whos-voting-what/?mod=e2…

Then I guess its another downside of an aging population and the obsession with money/status/career success over having a family. Gives you more old folk than young ones.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#275

Post by BurningFrog »

Analemma_ wrote: post #234
Grue3 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had Talk about lack of perspective. In the long term it's absolutely insignificant. It's like people calling GWB or Obama the worst US president. Can't believe such a poorly thought out comment is at the top.

Normally I would agree with you and say that "worst leader ever" statements are hyperbolic when the leader is still in office, but this time I think it's appropriate. The United Kingdom is probably going to ultimately dissolve as a result of this vote, and Cameron is going to be remembered as the moron who let it happen, all because of a catastrophically failed gambit to pander to the Ukip-leaning Tories. "Worst lead…

The time to judge Brexit is not after 10 hours. In 10 years we'll know how to evaluate the decision.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#276

Post by Armchair »

secfirstmd wrote: post #199
fredley wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theresa May is one of the scariest contenders as far as I've seen. Very pro-surveillance and anti-open internet. She would be a (nother) disaster for UK tech. If there's anybody left who hasn't moved to Dublin/Berlin by October.

People of Ireland speaking here: -Want to stay in the EU? -Want to trade in the Eurozone? -Enjoy low corporate tax rate of 12.5%? Pro-business government? -Enjoy friendly, well educated, English speaking, Pro-American people, good beer, decent music, nice quality of life, low crime and safe green natural environment? (Look how much fun even our soccer fans are http://www.irishexaminer.com/euro2016/euro2016-banter/10-…

As an Irish person, I would like our country to take the opportunity to welcome British business but say "thanks, but no thanks" to finance and banking.

I want our brightest and best to do more useful stuff, engineering and literature and medicine or whatever. We should consider our education system to have failed every time a bright student goes into finance.

It's the only long term sustainable plan. Convert debt to equity and keep the deposit base low.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#277

Post by DonaldFisk »

CommanderData wrote: post #48
geff82 wrote: post #42

He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had. Which he already was before yesterday. By the way, if he let the people decide on such a super topic as leave/remain in the EU, why does he not let his people vote on whether they want total surveillance or not? If they want a police state? Why can't they decide on stuff that affects their daily lives in a potential negative way? Or will they ignor…

This government is for austerity and cutting public services and expenditure. He is no less a reflection of his party. Next PM's in line: Theresa May: Pro snoopers (spying) charter. I don't like the term police state but her actions are worryingly in line. Boris Johnson? A very charismatic idiot. His selling point being the golden coloured hairy creature that has permanently occupied his scalp. Yes. We have a great l…

I'm no fan of hers, but home secretaries seem to get house trained by the security service (MI5) soon after taking office. The home secretaries of the previous Blair/Brown Labour administration were also dreadful. Someone once said that every home secretary since Roy Jenkins has been worse than the previous one.

And Boris Johnson is no idiot. It's part of his act.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#278

Post by bsimpson »

vijayr wrote: post #259

Can someone explain what happens next? Will UK really leave the EU? If yes, how long will it take? Will EU ask them to leave or just wait for UK to initiate the process?

The EU asked them to leave this morning.

[0] http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/europe-plung...

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#279

Post by [deleted] »

Grishnakh wrote: post #230
matthewmacleod wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately Northern Ireland doesn't have the economy or infrastructure to realistically function as an independent state at this point. You never know about the future, but it's likely not on the table any time soon.

Why does it need to be large to function independently? There are a bunch of far smaller nations in the EU/Europe: Luxembourg, Andorra, San Marino, Liechtenstein, etc. If Northern Ireland became independent, it could just join the EU (regular Ireland is also an EU member), so they wouldn't have to maintain their own currency at least, and would benefit from the free trade. If Luxembourg can function as it is, I don't…

[deleted]

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#280

Post by dragonwriter »

vijayr wrote: post #259

Can someone explain what happens next? Will UK really leave the EU? If yes, how long will it take? Will EU ask them to leave or just wait for UK to initiate the process?

> Can someone explain what happens next?

People can guess, but there's a lot of uncertainty on some points.

> Will UK really leave the EU?

Most likely, as I understand it, the next British government will formally start the (at least) two year process of exiting the EU. In the short term, they are still in the EU.

> Will EU ask them to leave or just wait for UK to initiate the process?

As I understand, under the applicable treaty, the UK has to formally initiate the withdrawal process. The EU has asked them to do so without delay, which is what Cameron had promised before the vote, but Cameron has since said that he plans to leave that to the next PM.

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