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Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

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Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#271

Post by whatever9817 »

askafriend wrote: post #209
dclowd9901 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After being laid off twice during my short career life (I'm only 33), I've learned one lesson loud and clear: Always be ready for a great opportunity, and when it comes, go for it. That and always keep learning, because there's going to be some young go hard ready to come in and fuck your shit up.

That's me right now, early in my career. I'm ready to go hard and fuck your shit up. Sorry!

I presume you're writing another free software knockoff that solves the same problems as 40 years ago and that everyone has to "learn".

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#272

Post by porker »

hga wrote: post #232
acdha wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other people have pointed out how rough the period around 2000 was but it's also worth looking at how similar things were the previous time that'd happened in the early 90s when the defense contractors laid off a ton of engineers as the Cold War died down. That meant that you had large numbers of people with similar backgrounds all on the job market, in the same areas at the same time, competing for a sharply reduced…

And that's wasn't the first Cold War related layoff period, we largely stopped fighting it in the '70s (roughly "Vietnam" through when the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan gave Carter a clue), and between that and the end of the Apollo program aerospace crashed and never returned to its old level. My family hired an EE to do electrical engineering in ~1972 and he was thrilled to be able to get back to it after doing al…

> through when the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan gave Carter a clue)

I've not heard that before - what clue did it give him?

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#273

Post by Swinx43 »

x5n1 wrote: post #229
MikeNomad wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to work with your analogy... Does that mean H1Bs are the sharks, or the chum?

H1Bs are our century's slaves, imported to work the tech plantations. Cheaper than locals. Fewer rights. Easier to exploit. And also make their owners a lot of money. In this case they are better off for it, that much has changed.

This is quite a harsh analysis but not too far from the truth. The limitations placed on H1Bs and the fact that you are really easier to exploit is one of the main reasons I have chosen in the past to go to a different country for work. If an H1B had the same rights as say a Tier 1 migrant in the UK you would see A LOT less abuse of this system.

A Tier 1 migrant in the UK has total freedom over who they can work for. They are not tied to a particular company and as such can leave for a better job without any administration overhead for them. They also have the ability to start their own company without any restrictions. This places them on equal footing with any local job applicants as they cannot be forced to work for lower than the industry going wage.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#274

Post by jzwinck »

Swinx43 wrote: post #273
x5n1 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H1Bs are our century's slaves, imported to work the tech plantations. Cheaper than locals. Fewer rights. Easier to exploit. And also make their owners a lot of money. In this case they are better off for it, that much has changed.

This is quite a harsh analysis but not too far from the truth. The limitations placed on H1Bs and the fact that you are really easier to exploit is one of the main reasons I have chosen in the past to go to a different country for work. If an H1B had the same rights as say a Tier 1 migrant in the UK you would see A LOT less abuse of this system. A Tier 1 migrant in the UK has total freedom over who they can work for.…

And how easy is it to get Tier 1 in the UK now? As an American, say.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#275

Post by Sven7 »

JupiterMoon wrote: post #255
SilasX wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people are responding with historical examples of qualified people unable to find jobs, but I think that strengthens my point. If you can do aircraft stress analysis, you're qualified to do a whole host of technical jobs with very little retraining; it's just a matter of finding those who are willing to take a chance. You don't have to wait for another stress analysis job.

No, your point is flawed and has no basis in reality. If many (read 10k-1000k order of magnitude depending on location size) skilled engineers are fired at the same time then things get really bad for engineers. * All the companies than need any engineering based work done can take their pick of the best. * But remember their normal recruitment channels are still open and feeding potential employees through. They may…

Also well worth reading about T.J Watson.

IBM was one of the few American companies that had no layoffs during the depression in the 30's.

Inventories built up. No sales. And he was almost fired.

Once the recovery started every company and govt in the world wanted a computer and the rest is history.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#276

Post by dredmorbius »

hga wrote: post #261
dredmorbius wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. So this crash happened before the oil embargo (fall, 1973)?

Yes, before the oil embargo. Since the DoD and NASA/the space industry were and probably still are the biggest buyers, and US airlines were completely regulated in that period, oil, or rather, distillate prices wouldn't have had a great effect. For that matter, certainly nowadays higher oil prices can mean more business for airplane companies as that makes buying more efficient planes more important.

Possibly a short-term uptick, but problematic longer term.

Take marine shipping as a similar case. Recent vessels were desiggned for high-cost fuel and slow sreaming, or so they tell us. But petroleum prices, and bunker fuel, have plummetted.

Hulls last 20+ years.

And shipping overall is down. Problem is demand-side.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#278

Post by adrianN »

ransom1538 wrote: post #219
dredmorbius wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among other factors mentioned: employer-specific skillsets. Technology jobs are very highly specialised. And I'm not just speaking of computer tech. I'm old enough to have seen several generations of obsoleted "gold tickets". Nuclear Engineering, future destroyed March 28, 1979. Freeway engineers, the freeway protests of the 1960s/1970s. Big Three auto manufacturers, dream destroyed with the first oil embargo, and su…

Regarding skill sets. I have only been in software 12 years or so, but I noticed a type of tech 'gamble'. Basically, when you decided to learn something in tech you are basically gambling that the tech will last. In 2007 many faced a simple decision: AS3 or iOS. Supposed you chose AS3. Then, worked on it from 2009-2012, quite profitably. Currently the AS3 job outlook is horrific, and all that knowledge is a waste. No…

I chose the things I learn not by what I think might be most profitable, but what I feel is most fun. If I wanted a job with boring but profitable technology I'd learn COBOL or MUMPS.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#279

Post by tallanvor »

jzwinck wrote: post #274
Swinx43 wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is quite a harsh analysis but not too far from the truth. The limitations placed on H1Bs and the fact that you are really easier to exploit is one of the main reasons I have chosen in the past to go to a different country for work. If an H1B had the same rights as say a Tier 1 migrant in the UK you would see A LOT less abuse of this system. A Tier 1 migrant in the UK has total freedom over who they can work for.…

And how easy is it to get Tier 1 in the UK now? As an American, say.

Not that easy, at least, I wasn't able to do so back around 2008 and ended up moving to Norway instead.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#280

Post by _AllisonMobley »

ImTalking wrote: post #74
rdtsc wrote: post #11

That is a good sign. It means the ship is slowly turning around. It sucks for the employees being laid off, no doubt. However they have to do this. There is no other way. They bet big on support and services in early 2000s. So they have lots of those employees. Could they all start to learn new things adapt to the new environment, yeah, some will but not everyone will. Heck, if they didn't lay off people, they'd stil…

The only good sign for corporations is organic growth. Amazon has it right.

Can you define what you mean by organic growth in this context?
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