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MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

tech.mit.edu

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Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#271

Post by GFischer »

bsder wrote: post #251
melted wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. I would argue that today college is little more than a weeding out process that weeds out far too many. You sit in classes and solve bullshit problems with known answers that will have very little bearing on the realities of your professional life once you graduate. For the most part people go to college to have a piece of paper that says they went to college and had enough stamina to tolerate this bullsh…

> You sit in classes and solve bullshit problems with known answers that will have very little bearing on the realities of your professional life once you graduate. Gonna argue with this one from the standpoint of Electrical Engineering. I would argue that almost everything up through junior year gets used every day. Basic circuits and basic digital never quits being relevant (I have pulled out a Karnaugh map every n…

Karnaugh maps are taught to programmers (on college/university courses) too :) at least in my country, I'd be very surprised if they aren't in the U.S.

I'd actually mostly forgotten about them :) .

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#272

Post by bitwize »

realitygrill wrote: post #265
gravypod wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by this?

Dull people don't usually call themselves dull. "Reasonably intelligent" or "average" are more common. Think, was there perhaps a strategic reason to paint himself so?

Think, was there perhaps a strategic reason to paint himself so?

Socrates, at his trial before a jury of Athenians, is said to have used a variation of the Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer defense to provoke sympathy: "I'm just a humble country boy, not worldly and sophisticated like you", etc.

Not that Bush is any Socrates, but the stratagem is the same.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#273

Post by restalis »

cgm616 wrote: post #260
msellout wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most My experience says the opposite.

In my experience, there are three groups of kids in high school, at least concerning future studies/employment. One group maybe wants to do something because it pays well, with no motivation because they aren't passionate. The next group is very passionate about one or two things, and have lots of motivation. However, they seem to view that as the only option, even though more likely than not it will change and shift…

The first group are mercenaries. They usually end up in finance, management, law, sales or some other (mostly) boring job, then politics.

The second group are crusaders. They begin a quest for fulfillment of their working potential, usually despite their parent's advice, in anything they deem challenging (even in the same management or law as the first group, but for different reasons).

The last group are peasants. These will either be stepping on their parent's footsteps (or following anything they are being sold by their entourage actually), or will feel themselves lost and helpless.

...and I noticed that people change between these groups too.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#274

Post by restalis »

melted wrote: post #247
seanp2k2 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stamina to tolerate bullshit and get things done despite thinking they're totally idiotic is valuable skill set in many industries. The piece of paper is also proof that you can follow directions well.

Getting shit done is valuable. Tolerating bullshit is absolutely not.

"Tolerating bullshit is absolutely not (valuable)."

I agree with this bottom line, but I sense a lot of politics in there around what is/isn't called bullshit. Getting opinions when you ask for them is valuable, having to fight your way against your employees (for them to do something you are paying them for) is absolutely not.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#275

Post by eli_gottlieb »

rubicon33 wrote: post #249
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #83

This sounds overly dreamy. At the very least, their new "university" should bother to award degrees when specific breadth-and-depth levels of knowledge are adequately demonstrated.

Do you have an email address I could use to get ahold of you. I have a question about a post you made a few years back.

I do think my HN profile lists my email address, but if it doesn't, it's "$FIRSTNAME$LASTNAME@gmail.com".

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#276

Post by brazzledazzle »

cyphar wrote: post #269
brazzledazzle wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My anecdotal experience brought me to similar conclusions. Structure is required in schools because of the way children are taught in schools. And I'm not sure I'd do any different given the same requirements. Even though it doesn't have the best results for every child it scales well enough that most people at least do okay. Take your average child away from that after several years of being part of it and any short…

> My anecdotal experience brought me to similar conclusions. Structure is required in schools because of the way children are taught in schools. First off, that's a circular argument. But also note that research into education is riddled with issues (such as the researchers having moral issues with blind control groups, which results in basically useless data). Our education system is based on the gut instinct of cer…

It's circular because it's a circular pattern that reinforces itself. If schools had a large amount of resources or didn't need to scale efficiently they wouldn't need the structure and if they didn't need the structure children (and staff) wouldn't become dependent on it.

That said there certainly are people that need structure to learn (particularly what they don't want to learn). There are several disorders or disabilities that would make unstructured learning incredibly difficult or impossible.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#277

Post by complexmango »

melted wrote: post #159

I think what we need are apprenticeships. I.e. a prominent research group hires kids after the remedial first two years of traditional college curriculum (or something like it plus a couple of years in an entry level job), and has them work on the actual problems at hand, filling the knowledge gaps as needed. It is no longer possible to know much of anything, so we should specialize and diversify at the same time, me…

Agreed, and that's not even limited to tech. I'm in the commercial real estate world, which practically revolves around apprenticeships, and the system works amazingly well. It also rewards competence over credentials, commitment to improvement over connections.

Trying to make the world better (with initial guidance) and solving real life problems is the best teacher of all.

College training for me, or for all the apprentices I've had over the years, was of minimal importance beyond learning the discipline of a rigorous approach. I could have started after sophomore year, and arguably done better (without having to have spent 2 more years at school, and 2 more years at a tech startup as an employee, and with 1/2 the student debt and bad cafeteria food).

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#278

Post by cholantesh »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #214
cholantesh wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was not the linked article sufficient?

It's revisionist history. Bush is clearly not as dumb as he was caricatured. But he certainly couldn't lead in any way on his own without daddy's entourage telling him what to do.

Could any head of state? The depth of expertise required to hold that kind of position is far more than one man can deign to have.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#279

Post by bsder »

GFischer wrote: post #271
bsder wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You sit in classes and solve bullshit problems with known answers that will have very little bearing on the realities of your professional life once you graduate. Gonna argue with this one from the standpoint of Electrical Engineering. I would argue that almost everything up through junior year gets used every day. Basic circuits and basic digital never quits being relevant (I have pulled out a Karnaugh map every n…

Karnaugh maps are taught to programmers (on college/university courses) too :) at least in my country, I'd be very surprised if they aren't in the U.S. I'd actually mostly forgotten about them :) .

I only pull K maps out once or twice a year when some programmer absolutely insists that a conditional is correct when I can see that it isn't.

When I teach the class to programmers, state machines are the far more important concept I try to drive home. I use state machines all the time when programming.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#280

Post by JoeAltmaier »

bsder wrote: post #279
GFischer wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Karnaugh maps are taught to programmers (on college/university courses) too :) at least in my country, I'd be very surprised if they aren't in the U.S. I'd actually mostly forgotten about them :) .

I only pull K maps out once or twice a year when some programmer absolutely insists that a conditional is correct when I can see that it isn't. When I teach the class to programmers, state machines are the far more important concept I try to drive home. I use state machines all the time when programming.

...and state machines are hard to represent in most languages! That is a real pity. Its part of the one-dimensional nature of text-based programming. While state machines are two or three-dimensional ideas.
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