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State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

theguardian.com

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Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#271

Post by zxcvcxz »

Shivetya wrote: post #252
Houshalter wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because people let it. There is little danger form actual terrorism, but there is massive danger from people's reactions to terrorism.

I think you underestimate the impact this type of terrorism has. The real massive danger is constantly trying to downplay it. The simple fact is, when facing an irrational enemy the last thing you can do is try to shift the blame to those who react.

>The real massive danger is constantly trying to downplay it.

No, it's not. The danger is over reacting, as history has proven time and time again. Fear is not the answer.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#272

Post by moonchrome »

mtrpcic wrote: post #224
voynich61 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because people like you seem to think it's such a big deal. If people were to look at it as it is and comprehend the scope of the matter, it wouldn't damage the social fabric.

This statement is so naive that it blows me away. As toomuchtodo said, there's a huge difference between n car accidents per year, and the equivalent damage done by a terrorist attack, and the answer isn't just "stop making such a big deal about it". When I get into a car, I'm putting myself in a situation that could be dangerous, and am accepting those risks for the reward of not having to walk to work. When these p…

> It's the difference between "expected" and "unexpected"

No it's not - people die from unexpected accidents completely unaware of the risks all the time - intuitive risk perception doesn't work really well - caveman instincts and all that - risk perception is not the problem - if this was indeed an isolated incident that would not repeat it would be sad but not very relevant - an example of this is Breivik murders.

But obviously this is not comparable - people behind this will try to repeat it if not dealt with - this is why it's a big deal.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#273

Post by nmc »

rodrigocoelho wrote: post #223

Reddit Paris Shootings Live Thread: "We will no longer be reporting what's happening at the Bataclan. This is due to a gag request by French Police" Source: https://www.reddit.com/live/vwwnkuplwr9y

Back in January, when a guy took hostages in a grocery store in Paris, it was proven that he was watching real-time news channel "BFM-TV", and got information about the positions of the police forces.

I can understand why the police units dealing with this situation do not want to let that kind of thing happen again.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#274

Post by dragonwriter »

stvswn wrote: post #217
Gatsky wrote: post #9

A disaster. Obviously don't know yet who is responsible, but I don't understand why France is being targeted in this way. They are hardly terrorist enemy number one.

France jealously guards its secular republic. Separation of church and state is a top priority (well above the U.S. and U.K. -- for instance, head coverings are not allowed in public schools). The French are notably resilient in the face of intimidation (see the protests and solidarity after the Charlie Hebdo shootings). There's a lot about the French for terrorists to hate, which is worthy of admiration in my opinio…

> Separation of church and state is a top priority (well above the U.S. and U.K. -- for instance, head coverings are not allowed in public schools).

That's not separation of church and state, that's suppression of unpopular religion by the secular state, which is no different than suppression of unpopular religion in favor of a popular religion by the state. (And its not just in schools, though that was one of the focal points in the debates, the ban applies in all public spaces in France.)

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#275

Post by yarper »

aikah wrote: post #123

French and living in Paris here. I'm at home fortunately but I live nearby the places in the eastern side of Paris that were attacked. Don't know what to say , just that I hope everybody and their families are safe. This is hard, a very hard hit on my country. Vive la France.

UK here, this shit sucks. We're all thinking about you all.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#276

Post by rtz12 »

saeranv wrote: post #245
rtz12 wrote: post #166

Gee, I wonder when they will finally tell us that the ones responsible are in fact, islamic terrorists. Mark my words HN, this is just the beginning. I wonder when things like this will happen in other European countries. Germany is a likely candidate, as we are currently mass-importing the potential terrorist candidates. And now, I'll just wait for the downvotes I guess.

To call families fleeing war "potential terrorist candidates"... Can you see how this is an extremely broad, lazy generalization? What really supports this comparison, other than their religion and colour of their skin?

If course it is, it was meant to be. While my comment represented my thoughts about the whole situation, I also wanted to provoke a little bit.

And yes, "families fleeing war" are potential terrorist candidates. There is quite a possibility of future generations to radicalize. This happens (Europe exports quite some fighters for ISIL) and it will happen in the future, because the foundations are present. The refugees coming here will be mosty the future bottom of the lower class. And being poor, having no perspective and being insecure about ones identity aren't really things thatr you want to experience combined into a single adolescent boy.

And "families fleeing war" are not the only ones coming as refugees. It is also the fleeing fighters of ISIL.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#277

Post by [deleted] »

yourepowerless wrote: post #158
toomuchtodo wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many citizens show we permit to be slaughtered in the name of unwavering tolerance? EDIT: There is preventing integration as a host nation's people, and refusing to integrate as an immigrant. One can only do so much to make a person feel welcome in a country as their new home. You may bring your beliefs, but you'll follow the laws and human rights expectations of your host country. Otherwise, stay at home, war to…

Are you referring to the western powers which have killed millions of Muslims this last decade?

[deleted]

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#279

Post by Houshalter »

benevol wrote: post #7

Next thing you know, a new and even more totally total mass surveillance law is passed. (Obviously, attacks will continue to happen from time to time.)

This probably won't be a popular opinion on Hacker News, but it is it possible to compromise with a limited amount of mass surveillance?

I believe it was LA that had a plane fly above the city and record 24/7. It was just enough resolution to make out cars and people, but not identify anyone. Less invasive than security cameras in that sense. And I don't think it was live. It was just something the police could go back to and look at after a crime as committed, and see where the criminals went or came from.

Given some conditions, like the recordings be deleted after a few days, and that it requires a warrant to look at, I think that would be ok.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#280

Post by brk »

jewbacca wrote: post #148
brk wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, HN has become one of the best places to talk about things like this. Reddit discussions become overrun with useless comments. Stupid memes, puns, and just other irrelevant drivel. Many of the mainstream news outlets have lagging facts, horrible commenting (if any) and biased/washed/slanted reporting. HN thoroughly discourages both worthless commenting and links to worthless news sources. For me personally, I muc…

Top comments in the primary Reddit thread at the time of this post (using 'top' sorting): https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/3sphue/shootings... 1. Updated chronology of news with source links 2. Practically important publicization of #porteouverte effort 3. Updated chronology of news as experienced by Parisian local 4. First-person account of person who was present at theatre shooting 5. ... content-light j…

I don't want to sidetrack this with an HN vs. Reddit debate. The top story about this on Reddit has 14500+ comments. I couldn't really skim through them all in between the server timeouts, but it appears that the majority of them are non value-add.

As a story like this ages, my personal experience has been that the quality of comments on HN go UP while the quality of comments on Reddit go DOWN.

In regards to the parent post of this thread, I think that HN provides a valuable outlet for posting stories like this, and I personally feel it is within the overall HN "charter" for stories. It could turn out that this specific case balances out differently, but my personal opinion is that overall HN discussions for a given HN-worthy topic are more valuable than the comparative Reddit thread.

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