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How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

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Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#271

Post by toyg »

pasbesoin wrote: post #250
cwyers wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the pricing policy: https://www.jetbrains.com/toolbox/ The $20 is for all products, Resharper alone is $11.90 a month or $119 a year.

It used to be you would stop getting updates but could still use the product at its frozen (for you) point. For example, to re-examine an old project (even if you might not want to do any fresh builds on an outdated platform). Can you still do that, or does the tool "die" for you altogether once you stop paying? P.S. Assuming underlying OS compatibility, which would probably eventually break unless e.g. also frozen i…

> does the tool "die" for you altogether once you stop paying?

It dies. Or at least, this is what they have announced, obviously we will only be able to test from December.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#272

Post by FireBeyond »

dkhenry wrote: post #232
moe wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So previously $119 would buy him infinite years. And now $119 buys him a single year. Sounds like a downgrade to me?

no $119 would buy him one year of updates, and he could choose not to update in the future if he didn't want to. If he chose to update on a regular basis, then he would still need to pay $119 every year

And he'd get to use the product indefinitely, without updates, for that initial $119.

Now, his software gets turned off.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#273

Post by cweagans »

tobltobs wrote: post #234
cweagans wrote: post #21

You do realize that they haven't really changed their pricing model, right? They just changed how it's presented. It's always been a subscription if you want new features in an IDE (which most people do). I pay like $100/year for PHPstorm upgrades, and it's well worth the cost given the benefits that one receives from using the software (mostly in terms of productivity). Yes, renting software is a skeezy model. Yes,…

So leasing a car for 1000$ per year is the same as buying a car for $1000?

Apples and oranges. Neither situation leads to constant improvements and upgrades to the thing you're paying for.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#274

Post by fenomas »

I was with Adobe during their change (as a tech evangelist meeting a lot of users), and watched it play out from both directions. And setting aside questions of pricing, one thing people overlook is that a subscription plan is a much, much better way to make software than selling annual or biannual updates.

The problem is that for a mature product, yearly sales cycles create a toxic incentive to focus engineering time on flashy demo-friendly features, at the cost of spending cycles on performance, stability, workflow improvements that benefit power users but don't impress salespeople, and so on. It's a recipe for bloat - cutting out a flashy feature never helps sales, so they stick around even when they're not useful.

I don't know anything about JetBrains or their software, or whether the above is an issue for them, but FWIW I think most of the Adobe teams are making better tools since the change, and it's due to having the feature priorities in the right place.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#275

Post by sgdread »

cweagans wrote: post #150
mikeash wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keeping prices the same while providing less for the money is still a change in the pricing model. Before, the choice after a year was to pay for an upgrade or keep using the old version. Now the choice after a year is to pay for a renewal or find a new tool entirely.

Did you previously pay the yearly fee to continue to get upgrades?

The main difference is what happens after year term expires:

- old model: you keep using latest version you paid; no new updates;

- new model: you stop using the tool

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#276

Post by YoureWrong »

aantix wrote: post #237
anjanb wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with all your points. I have used jetbrains products for 15 years so I feel sad that this is how they are going to lose me and other customers. I was hoping they would come with an IDE for golang and I would buy that as well. Now, this is a big disappointment.

So your license price jumps from $89 to $120/yr and now you're no longer a customer? Do you not think their tools probably make up for that $120/yr in terms of your productivity? If you struggle with Netbeans or Eclipse for an hour or two with something IntelliJ does easily, you've already paid for your license. I don't understand arguing about peanuts; pay it the trivial increase and get on with the show of making r…

I don't care about the difference between $89 and $120 in the cost of a tool.

I do care about the difference between license and have it to use indefinitely and continually having to pay to use the product.

Notice how your comparison isn't apples to apples, because the one price is in dollars and the other is in dollar years.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#277

Post by enraged_camel »

mikeash wrote: post #122
nadams wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their first response was that it's cheaper than before. Except it's not. Did they think I wouldn't actually go look at the prices? Uh - their "everything" price is $20/month = $240/year (or $200 for the annual plan) (All renewal at current license price) PHPStorm - $129 PyCharm - $99 ReSharper Ultimate - $600 (no renewal price) If I were to purchase that with their old license it would cost me $828, with the new pl…

I'm glad it's better for you (really!). But they shouldn't present it as better for everyone when it's clearly not.

He is specifically refuting your argument that the new model isn't cheaper than the old model.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#278

Post by sgdread »

cweagans wrote: post #149
teacup50 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but they have changed their pricing model; the previous model provided a perpetual license with a year of updates, and the new model is simply rental, which access terminating once you stop paying. I don't rent my tools.

So don't. There are plenty of other tools out there that you can use. Did you previously pay the yearly fee to continue getting upgrades?

Now you paying not for upgrades, but the fee to use. No payment - you can't use it.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#279

Post by nitrogen »

barrkel wrote: post #174
nadams wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their first response was that it's cheaper than before. Except it's not. Did they think I wouldn't actually go look at the prices? Uh - their "everything" price is $20/month = $240/year (or $200 for the annual plan) (All renewal at current license price) PHPStorm - $129 PyCharm - $99 ReSharper Ultimate - $600 (no renewal price) If I were to purchase that with their old license it would cost me $828, with the new pl…

I switched from RubyMine to emacs and got a significant productivity boost. YMMV, but I don't think I'll ever use an IDE for a dynamic language again.

PHPstorm was excellent when I, a Ruby developer (among other languages), had to adopt a PHP codebase. RubyMine was less impressive, especially with all the enhancements available for Pry and IRB. RubyMine couldn't find method declarations or infer types the way PHPstorm could.

So, I stick with Vim for Ruby, but don't rule out IDEs entirely for other dynamic languages in a pinch.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#280

Post by fenomas »

estefan wrote: post #164
estefan wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just use IDEA ultimate and install different plugins per language?

@toyg (not sure why I can't reply to you so I'll reply to me instead) - really? I've never tried them. I thought Intellij was the same with the appropriate language plugin. Maybe I'll give some of them a go...

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