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Why Spotify Pays So Little

lit.vulf.de

261–270 of 305 posts

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the article really missed this point. One could also mentioned some sort of tiered payout scheme or a non-linear minimum after a certain amount of plays plus a percentage above that. Likely something that Spotify will experiment with over the years.

I doubt it. The business overhead of distributing payment this way is enormous. Right now, Spotify just runs a report that takes some top level numbers, splits them out by copyright owner and divides a single pool of money. This means they manage only as many pools of money as they have copyright owners. If they start doing it the way OP suggests, they DRAMATICALLY increase the number of pools of money they manage (a…

> The business overhead of distributing payment this way is enormous. Right now, Spotify just runs a report that takes some top level numbers, splits them out by copyright owner and divides a single pool of money.

Unless they are doing something special, they are actually just taking a bucket of money and sending it to SoundExchange or ASCAP/BMI (for the US at least) and letting the do the actual distribution. ASCAP/BMI are very used to distributing payments based on plays (they do it for radio, concerts, etc.).

It would really just be a matter of including the play counts for each song every month.

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but what is the total market size of businesses versus individuals?

I agree. Even if 100% of commercial properties that play music was using Spotify behind the scenes 24/7 that's still got to be only a small percentage of total Spotify plays.

Don't businesses also pay a lot more than individuals. I know here in Sweden playing music as part of your business is licensed differently than playing music in your living room. Commercial properties pay about 10 times as much pr. month for Spotify to cover commercial licensing of the music.

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#263
Spotify's "all you can listen to" model inherently implies they're going to be used as background music.

Could be worse. They could have their own musicians record popular songs and classics, and just pay the statutory royalty to the composer. Seeburg did that in the 1950s.[1] They sold the Seeburg 1000 background music system, and rented out phonograph records of background music, all recorded by Seeburg musicians. Stores rented and serviced the simple record changer, which endlessly played a stack of 25 records (both sides), about 50 hours of music. It's not a jukebox; it's much simpler.

Instead of copyrighting the disks (back then you had to register a copyright and pay for renewals), they used a primitive form of DRM - the records are 16 2/3 RPM, 9 inch diameter, 2 inch center hole, 0.005" stylus width, mono. This is incompatible with everything except a Seeburg 1000, though it's not hard to adapt a turntable to play them.

Someone has digitized the available Seeburg 1000 records, and you can listen to about 6000 songs of '50s - 70s background music.

[1] http://radiocoast.com/

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't negate the validity of wanting compensation for Spotify plays. Not being on a music service is one way to let your listeners know that the system is fucked and maybe make it change.

The system isn't fucked. Those bands used to NEVER get radio play except from the occasional college radio station that almost nobody listened to. And many of those bands never even made it that big. Now they have listeners all over the world. And if there's a decent market for their music they will get concert ticket sales. Spotify has got to be the best marketing a small band can get, and Spotify pays you for the p…

Just because situation is better doesn't mean it can't be further improved. You're considering 'No Spotify' vs 'Spotify' instead of 'Spotify' vs 'A better Spotify'.

If you think on principles, Spotify should in the long term aim for maximum customer satisfaction. This means optimizing the satisfaction per customer instead of per music play, seems to be currently done. By concentrating money on bands each user listens to each of those bands (getting more money) should theoretically improve in quality (and give Spotify more attention), increasing overall user satisfaction. It's a simple reasoning.

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#265
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use the (I think still considered "beta" or something) Linux desktop version and it does not know when I turn the volume down. When commercials come on, I quickly mute the machine, and I get a nice popup with the next song title to let me know commercials are done. It's nice because I find radio commercials particularly obnoxious--far more than television--and spotify will sometimes play them back to back. Speaking…

They just don't have much music. I tried spotify as a youtube substitute a few months back (at a friends house). Turns out they don't have a single song I searched for (all available on youtube, well known genre classics).

It really depends, probably on the labels concerned. My own short, happy, musical career is documented in full - that is, eight tracks on obscuro progressive house labels from 2008-2011. Nobody will ever want to listen to them, except me.

(I never saw a cent, but since they're all diplomatically categorised as 'I know a lot of older house/trance etc tracks, including genre classics, are stuck in licensing hell after the labels folded, and I would expect that to be the more true the further back in musical history you go.

If I get back into things, I'll probably just give the MP3s away. There's no money in music, and I earn a living elsewise.

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#266

Like others in this thread, I naively assumed this was how Spotify already worked, and wondered why the payouts tended to be so low. Now it makes sense, and puts the numbers here ( http://www.spotifyartists.com/spotify-explained/ ) in context. Realistically, it would be both hard to change structurally and a hard sell for major labels to give up what is effectively a subsidy of popular music by indie fans. Let’s take…

I believe this is how radio works too; my friend had some records of his played on the radio and got together a list of when they were, date time and all and approached the BBC about getting payments; based on the same reasoning/calculations as above he got a big fat £0.00.

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#267
I can't help but feel that all of these complaints about low pay etc are just a symptom of the new reality. I don't really understand what people are expecting here. Distribution costs are minimal, audience is (kind-of) locked-in, discovery is relatively simple. The risk is almost entirely on Spotify's end of things, rather than the artists. Yes, without the artists, Spotify doesn't have a business - but without digital streaming services like Spotify, users could easily end up under an iTunes monopoly which probably wouldn't be good for anybody (although I believe - may be wrong, but please correct me - that iTunes does give artists a better deal currently?). The world is going digital, and people want to stream stuff. That's just a fact. Sure, many people will always buy CDs and LPs, but there being 'no money' in recording music is hardly a new phenomenon - people have complained about it for years before digital streaming was even a thing.

I really do have sympathy that there isn't much money in recorded music, but I do struggle to find a justification for why artists seem to think Spotify should be paying them more other than the fact that they just 'want' it and need to make a living. I understand that completely - and honestly I'd probably pay a higher price for Spotify if they demanded it and the extra money went to artists.

I think the problem is this: the music industry in general has exploited artists for years. It is not a business that works in the artist's favour, unless those artists are extremely popular (and even then, labels can seriously fuck artists over if they want to). Outside of the superstars, musicians may (not always, but often) fare better when they organise their own affairs - live performances, commissions for work, appearances, media, collaborations etc. They probably won't get super-rich doing this, but it could be a decent income for the right artists. What we have instead is a situation where artists create music for a (more or less) one time cost (recording, mastering, equipment, studio time etc) and then hope to make the money back through physical sales, royalties, and performances. The problem, I feel, is that the initial costs of production are still high, but the distribution costs are now incredibly low, which means end-consumers are reluctant to pay higher prices. I don't see any way around this other than altering the nature of the business itself. If production is always going to be a costly affair in the music world, then income from royalties through services like Spotify are destined to be considered low.

I honestly think there's no real hope for any significant increase in income through digital services. Why should there be? There's no technical reason to increase fees - distribution gets cheaper all the time. The only way to increase royalty payments generally is to either cut into profits, or pass the increase on to the customer - neither of which are sensible business decisions unless Spotify's hand is forced.

We don't really have a profitable relationship with music - the value we attach to a single track on iTunes or Spotify doesn't reflect at all the costs to the artist - but unless artists can convince consumers to start paying a lot more, I just don't think they'll see significant returns from recorded music any time in the forseeable future. It's just not an industry that pays particularly well. Production costs are high, distribution costs are low. Unless we alter the way music is produced, performed, and experienced, people won't feel like paying more gives them any extra value. It's an uphill battle.

I wish things were better for artists, but I just don't see a way out of this is that doesn't involve massively increasing price at the point of consumption.

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#268
Question: If spotify isn't a good deal for indy artist, why don't they all abandon the platform and use an alternative? Like Bandcamp, which you mentioned pays 8x. Come on artists, I dare you to?! :) Or are you afraid of subverting the dominant paradigm?

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#269
post #2

Vulfpeck is also the band behind Sleepify[1], the album of ten silent 30s songs which fans looped on Spotify while they slept. Vulfpeck earned $20k as a result and used it to organize a tour. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleepify

Spotify commented at the time, comparing Vulfpeck to John Cage. Made me giggle. Vulfpeck is great, I saw them live in NYC a few years ago

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average consumer only spends $48 on recorded music per year.[0] At $100+ per year, services like Spotify are much more expensive for all but the most prolific music collector. [0] http://recode.net/2014/03/18/the-price-of-music/

But only one quarter of the users is a subscriber: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jan/12/spotify-60... Suppose that the average price for subscribers is $7.50 (since students get discounts and they are probably a large chunk of subscribers). That's (12 * 7.50) / 4 = $22.50 Suddenly that $48 starts to look pretty good.

Yeah, but you probably shouldn't assume that Spotify is the only money they spend. Just because someone has a Spotify subscription (and thus has demonstrated a willingness to spend money on music), they might buy at least the odd track and/or also subscribe to other streaming in some form on other services, e.g. as part of Amazon Prime. And OTOH, unpaid Spotify subscribers will in some cases be unpaid precisely because they get their music from other sources (streaming, paid, "free").

Of course, music revenue has declined overall in any case.

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