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Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

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Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#261

Post by anigbrowl »

david wrote: post #260
anigbrowl wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Rent control did not originate in San Francisco, and has been around a lot longer than Proposition 13. Its history in modern economics goes back to world War 1, and the concept of economic rents and the need to regulate them originates with Adam Smith in the 18th century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rent_control_in_Engl...

I think he meant in San Francisco rent control began as a response to prop 13, not that rent control itself began in san francisco.

Oh yes, that would make sense.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#262

Post by therobot24 »

codeshaman wrote: post #139

TLDR: Had an offer to relocate to Sillicon Valley, refused because of the poor/homeless people all around. Full version: A couple of years ago I had this offer to relocate to Sillicon Valley to work at my company's new office there. H1B visa, great salary, incredible project, a dream come true. I live in Barcelona and there are few cities in the world which can compete with the Barcelona package, even during times of…

> a kind of 'either you're with me or get the fuck out of here' kind of vibe

Oddly enough this is very common in bigger US cities, and not just a SV thing

> then I started to notice that there's lots of them in the city and as it started to get dark, the streets became filled with these people - fucked up, strange and scary, outcasts, abandoned, ignored, useless... I almost ran back to the train station

aside from the whole mental hospital dump [1], warmer climates tend to attract homeless for a variety of reasons (e.g., on the street + cold weather = gona have a bad time)

> How come there are no homeless (or at least bum-looking) people in Barcelona ?

that's a very good question

[1]: http://www.salon.com/2013/09/29/ronald_reagans_shameful_lega...

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#263

Post by [deleted] »

scott_karana wrote: post #249
throwaway9324 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does for the people being discussed.

Not necessarily. A poorly maintained, older building may have worse heat insulation or vapour barriers, or problems with mold, or simply less efficient fixtures than modern buildings. Energy and healthcare bills can be substantial, and are borne by the tenants, not the landlords. What you're really describing is a lower standard of living, not merely a lower cost of living.

[deleted]

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#264

Post by dllthomas »

dragonwriter wrote: post #248
paulhauggis wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do you force birth control on people who do not meet a certain level of financial independence? Do you take kids away from parents who lose that financial independence? Do you let people starve and freeze to death?"" I usually refuse to have discussions with people that use straw-man arguments and try to guilt me into siding with their opinion, but I will make this exception today. If we had a basic income, how woul…

> If we had a basic income, how would you handle a growing amount of dependence on the system? With economics. If you set the level of basic income too high for sustainability given current productivity and people's willingness to work given the support available, such that there is, in the short term, excessive dependency on it, then you'll be giving out lots of money and it will be chasing very few goods because th…

Unless you make the mistake of tying the level of BI to observed inflation. But don't do that.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#265

Post by reneherse »

dragonwriter wrote: post #197
nsnick wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets not forget that these people would be middle class anywhere else.

> Lets not forget that these people would be middle class anywhere else. If they could magically keep their Bay Area income while being anywhere else, they might be. But since they can't actually do that, I'm not sure what relevance that has.

This assumes all levels of income are inflated equally, which they are not.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#266

Post by dllthomas »

Domenic_S wrote: post #258
Frondo wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I keep saying, rather than propose a menu of options to the community without getting their input, get their input. Our conversation is now going something like this: You: If they want to move, move them, otherwise do nothing Me: Ask them what they want You: I'm not saying they have to move, just that that's what we can do Me: Ask them what they want You: You misunderstand, they don't have to move, but that's the…

It's equivocation really, because what they want, at the most general level, is not to be homeless. But they're the worst people to ask input from, because if they knew how not to be homeless, they wouldn't be homeless . So sure, have a conversation and find out where they want to be in their life, but it's madness to think they'll give you insight into how to fix what got them there.

They might very well have insight into how to deploy resources they did not have access to to fix their problems.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#267

Post by RestlessMind »

How are children born into poverty in the first place? How many of them are "planned" by their parent, vs how many of them are unplanned consequences of relationships between parents who haven't yet "settled"?

I believe child poverty can be reduced significantly if the society focuses on unwanted pregnancies. Some ideas:

1. Better sex education

2. Cheap / free access to contraceptives - it can be a joint effort with some charitable organizations

3. Easy access to abortions - there will be political opposition in certain parts of the country, but I don't see who opposes it in places like Silicon Valley.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#268

Post by Lawtonfogle »

Frondo wrote: post #235
Lawtonfogle wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You've said, ship 'em out! Retrain them! If they don't want to do those things, do nothing. It seems you have misunderstood my point. I'm not saying to load them up and ship them out. I'm saying that if they want help, the best utilization of limited resources will be in helping them move somewhere more affordable. But they don't have to accept help; it isn't being forced on them. I'm saying offer options, not enfor…

And I keep saying, rather than propose a menu of options to the community without getting their input, get their input. Our conversation is now going something like this: You: If they want to move, move them, otherwise do nothing Me: Ask them what they want You: I'm not saying they have to move, just that that's what we can do Me: Ask them what they want You: You misunderstand, they don't have to move, but that's the…

>Assuming government resources are needed to be spent to help resolve this

Many of the other fixes talk about changing laws, and my suggestion was basically in the scenario that those don't work. (I do grant that a law change would cost the government some money to implement, new permits, ect.; I just consider such costs when broken down per person help to be effectively zero and to, in large part, already be paid for by all the already hired staff.)

So I guess the question to you is... what about all the poor people in every other state. Have you asked them what they want to be done, so we can fairly allocate money? We could give those in need in SV ($TheirPoor * $BudgeToHelpThePoor)/$TotalPoor and let them spend it on what they want and if they run out, tell them tough luck.

On a side note, what happens to the average individual who wins big in the lottery?

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#269

Post by Lawtonfogle »

veemjeem wrote: post #140
mgraczyk wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When times are tough, moving does not need to be expensive. Before I moved to SV, I sold or donated everything I couldn't fit in two suitcases. I moved into an affordable house where I share a bedroom with 3 other people. I would be able to make rent with only $20k/year. I know not everybody can divorce themselves from all of their belongings, especially large families. Additionally, I didn't have to worry about scho…

You can divorce yourself from your belongings because it's easy for you to find work and quickly replace your belongings. If you know you'll have to sleep on concrete for the next 5 months because you won't be able to find work, you'll carry your mattress with you.

I think it is important to make the point that you cannot buy the items for the value you sale them at. For one, you are selling them quickly, which means selling them at a loss. Then add in that you are selling the items used, 'other-used' is valued at far less than 'self-used', which means even if you buy used once you moved, the items have lost value. For example, I'd much prefer my own bed that I slept in for 3 years than a strangers bed they only used for 2.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#270

Post by pa5tabear »

doki_pen wrote: post #50

Fix the public education system so that living in a poorer area doesn't mean your kids have zero chance at real success. We are moving more and more towards a caste-system where your parents success is the most important factor in your own success, as a child. It hurts us all when we don't have the most qualified people possible performing the important professions.

How do you propose we fix the education system?

The largest predictor of educational success, like you said, is money. You can try to equalize, but the rich will always find ways to spend more money on their children's education.

I don't think there is a solution as long as America's rising inequality continues.

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