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Fired

zachholman.com

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Re: Fired

#261

Post by UweSchmidt »

Worth remembering that for the most time in human history, no one was ever "fired" in the sense that happens today. You worked on a farm all your life, or possibly would have a trade, and that was that. So it's a new concept and we haven't fully come to terms with that.

If the economic system keeps requiring people to switch jobs, then society must be more accepting: Employers need to be less weird about it, employees less devastated when it happens, everything smoothened out by a few weeks or months of unemployment benefits if necessary.

Re: Fired

#262

Post by civilian »

wilsynet wrote: post #243

According to Zach, Github doesn't have managers. So if there are no managers, then who fired him? Or can anyone just fire anyone else? Maybe Zach could just hire himself back.

I mean yeah, he probably fired himself too!

Re: Fired

#263

Post by influx »

tlrobinson wrote: post #220
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even Steve Jobs was successfully replaced Some would argue about that :)

Well, not the stock market.

When I first read replaced, I was thinking Sculley not Cook. Clearly one has been more successful so far than the other :)

Re: Fired

#264

Post by bmelton »

cpr wrote: post #6

Zach was a quite visible ambassador for GH, an excellent speaker and spreader of GH love and lore. Would love to hear the story behind this.

The amount of non-technical things that I learned from Zach is a very long list.

In my opinion, GitHub was, by Zach's description at least, the "exactly right" sort of organization that I would imagine an employee wanting to work at.

I blatantly stole his PowerPoint tips, right down to the orange-colored Yanone Kaffesatz font.

I learned about how to to unsuck the development environment, that the product was the byproduct, and more about Github than from probably any other source.

This doesn't change that for me, but he was indeed a fantastic ambassador and representative of a company that I would very much love to work for.

This doesn't make me think negatively of Github, or Zach, but without knowing why he was fired, or for what reasons he's no longer a good fit, it does give me the idea that the big tent has shrunk a little bit.

Re: Fired

#265

Post by nirvdrum »

chimeracoder wrote: post #246
nirvdrum wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons you usually don't hear about why people get fired is the employee is offered a severance package in exchange for signing a non-disparagement agreement. Usually that agreement cuts both ways, so you're happy to sign it. You get some money to help you decide what's next, while you and your employer exit on as best terms as reasonably possible. The only thing you need to give up is venting on the Inte…

> One of the reasons you usually don't hear about why people get fired is the employee is offered a severance package in exchange for signing a non-disparagement agreement. Obligatory: I am not a lawyer, I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice. Just FYI, nondisparagement agreements have fallen out of favor in recent years, as they're interpreted very narrowly by courts[0]. Even if your company presents you…

Good to know. I'm not a lawyer either. I'm just drawing from experience with companies in the Boston area. Maybe my info is just out of date or maybe it's regional. But usually your two options, in my experience, are don't sign the agreement and received no severance, or sign it without modification and soften the blow with the cash. Granted I've never seen anyone try to negotiate at that point -- most just sign the paper and leave.

Re: Fired

#266

Post by phamilton »

zwily wrote: post #255
tlrobinson wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, not the stock market.

Here's how AAPL did during his absence: https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&...

Don't forget his second absence:

https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&...

Re: Fired

#267

Post by barce »

I'm just one guy that Zach really inspired. Thanks for that talk you gave on Github. It really inspired me and made me bring what's great in Github into my work and everyday life. I really liked the part of the talk on remote teams.

Re: Fired

#268

Post by tsotha »

jghn wrote: post #117
toomuchtodo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Finally -- For what it's worth, people are fired all the time ( as I have been ) for all kinds of reasons, and so it's not a reason not to hire someone. Professional hiring managers know this. What terrifies me about being fired is: * I have a family to support, and even though we're well off enough to have a 6-12 month cushion, I've seen job markets where it takes longer than that you get hired * The number of unp…

That is the one thing I really don't like about the whole fire fast mentality that is starting to pop up, particularly the extreme examples of "fire for any reason as soon as the person isn't a perfect fit, regardless of overall quality". I'm fine with that, but make sure that I know it's likely coming well in advance. Make sure I understand that I'm not pulling my weight. Make sure I understand that the company is m…

IMO Fire fast is a mistake, even from a purely green-eye shades perspective. It takes time to bring a new employee up to speed, and while they're coming up to speed they need attention from other people who are supposed to be working on their own projects.

Beyond that it creates a morale problem. People who work together form social attachments and get upset when a coworker disappears. People who are in no actual danger of being fired will assume they're next. People who make mistakes or miss deadlines will start looking for new jobs because job-hunting is easier when you have a job. And good people will start to leave because it's just not a fun place to work with the black cloud hanging over the office.

That is not to say you should never fire someone. Sometimes it's unavoidable. But it's not something you should do lightly.

Re: Fired

#269

Post by joshyeager »

kelnos wrote: post #139
halostatue wrote: post #61

I’ve been fired three times. The first time was early in my career. A site manager decided to impose working hours that (a) were in opposition to how I was recruited and (b) not what the client wanted, but (c) didn’t matter anyway because the site manager had the power to do that. This was no great loss. I was better off out of there than working under those circumstances. I had a new job a month later paying 50% mor…

This one…I had to address why I was no longer at the company clearly, directly, and without evasion or disparagement. I handled it very well, I think. Can you elaborate on this a bit? I could sometimes use some lessons in diplomacy...

These two Career Tools podcasts cover several aspects of getting fired, including a very good answer to your question:

https://www.manager-tools.com/2011/03/getting-fired-part-1 https://www.manager-tools.com/2011/03/getting-fired-part-2

Re: Fired

#270

Post by ankitgarg00 »

I hear your experience and feel like man "this guy must have gone through so much". Instead of pitying you I would say "One heck of a ride and good luck with your next".
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