Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

eurekalert.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 333 posts

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#261

Post by Spooky23 »

Steer wrote: post #139
ddlatham wrote: post #83

Most striking are the race differences revealed in the study, Brame says. In particular, the research points to a higher prevalence of arrest among black males and little race variation in arrest rates among females. ... By age 23, 49 percent of black males, 44 percent of Hispanic males and 38 percent of white males have been arrested. ... By age 23, arrest rates were 20 percent for white females and 18 percent and 1…

Strange, but coming from an European background while taking in a lot of American culture, I was (pleasantly, I guess) surprised that the discrepancy between white and black males wasn't larger. I am more or less shocked about he percentages overall, but really thought the gap was much larger. Sorry if this doesn't add anything substantial, but I honestly would have have guessed that it was about 3 times more black m…

Your perception is mostly based on TV.

Crime correlates to poverty. People with nothing to lose roll the dice and do dumb shit.

I grew up in NYC and a rural part of Upstate NY that were about as opposite as you could get. The small town still had "bad" neighborhoods, they were run down trailer parks with old trailers and poor people. They committed the same types of stupid crimes, like robbery, vandalism and fighting. The drug trade was there, but mostly centered around smuggling and growing weed. (There are only so many drug users in a town of 2,500 without a major transit route, so the retail business wasn't great!)

In the inner city, you get the added instability of the retail drug market. IMO, population density and the retail drug business are the reason why black males get arrested more. Desperate white people are just as desperate as their black equivalent.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#262

Post by baddox »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #167
NhanH wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure, but does this have anything to do with being common law rather than civil law? To be more specific, it's not a matter of the law being "too strict", but rather it's too vague and have to be interpreted by a judge. So until someone actually fight a case, the interpretation could be too broad and can be used easily. In civil law, you pretty much have to iterate everything. Disclaimer: I have no idea what…

The vagueness of the laws are a different problem. If the laws were just vague then you could have judges interpreting them in favor of defendants as often as prosecutors. If you had to point to one thing as the cause of all this, it is likely to be the privatization of criminal justice. As soon as you have a private prison or a defense contractor selling military-grade equipment to civilian police forces, you create…

> The vagueness of the laws are a different problem.

It's not really that separate. One way to have a very restrictive society with a high incarceration rate is to have a clear set of laws that are explicitly strict and strictly enforced. Another way is to have a set of laws so large, complex, and vague that it is literally physically impossible for anyone to know whether he or she is breaking a law by performing any given action, or laws so broad in scope that everyone is almost guaranteed to be guilty of something. While there is certainly some of both, I think the latter is a more accurate description of the United States.

> As soon as you have a private prison or a defense contractor selling military-grade equipment to civilian police forces, you create the incentive for those organizations to lobby for more "customers" through broader prohibitions, tougher enforcement and harsher penalties.

You don't even need "private" prisons or defense contractors in the sense you're probably thinking. Even organizations that are operated directly by government are subject to those personal incentives, because it's still individuals who rely on the government funding, both laborers for their livelihood, and higher level officers for career advancement, prestige, and power. Heck, even politicians who are elected directly often have perverse incentives, because the actions required to get reelected are potentially quite different than the actions which would accomplish the traditional goals of "good" government (like upholding law, being fair, increasing prosperity, etc.).

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#263

Post by peckrob »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #244
peckrob wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have said, they only apply to minors (under 18) and are usually restricted to certain hours and days. And they can vary depending on the cities, counties and states. It can be a kinda confusing mishmash of laws for those who live near the borders. I grew up outside Knoxville, Tennessee. The curfew in the city was 17-18, Monday-Thursday, 11pm-6am, Friday-Sunday, Midnight-6am. 16 and under, subtract an hour f…

It seems like one of those laws that is a "convenience law." I.e., it's there for the convenience of the police if they see something suspicious and want to question you, or something they can hit you with if they don't like your attitude. That that simply to provide something to charge you with? If you are acting suspicious, surely they have the power to question you anyway curfew law or no curfew law?

That was poorly phrased. Let me see if I can do better.

Simply being out late is not sufficient reason to be stopped or questioned for most people. It gives them a reason to stop and question people who are out late and may be up to no good. If you look young enough that you might be out after curfew, that's reason enough for them to stop and ask you for identification.

Obviously, if they see you doing something illegal, they're going to stop you. But simply "being suspicious" can involve a wide range of things, and curfew laws give the police a reason to, at the very least, ask for identification if you look like you might be underage.

In general, I think these laws are intended to deter gang activity and what people might refer to as "anti-social behavior" elsewhere (petty crime, graffiti, etc). As a result, I'm betting they are more heavily enforced in inner city areas rather than in suburbs or rural areas.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#264

Post by briandh »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #247
TomGullen wrote: post #113

Used to dream of living in the US, moving our business there. Not just due to this, but the more I read and learn about the US, the more that is exposed about the US, the less I now want to live there.

>moving our business there That would be genuinely insane.

It would depend a lot on where he/she would be moving from how "insane" it would be.

Though I agree there are better jurisdictions than the US to move a business to.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#265

Post by briandh »

obvious_throw wrote: post #260
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why downvoted?

Because of this: White women live in a consequence-free environment until they don't. While absolutely true in North America, it's one of those things you're not permitted to say: http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html Hence, the downvotes.

Sorry, it is not true.

For instance, you ought to visit some rural areas sometime and see the "consequence-free environment" in which white women there live.

If you want to talk about middle-to-upper-middle-class white women in urban and suburban areas that is a different story, though "consequence-free environment" is still a bit of a stretch.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#266

Post by kazinator »

baddox wrote: post #259
pyre wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curfew laws are mostly aimed at children and don't apply to adults. Would you draw parallels between the government legislating that 'school-aged' children must go to school and the US decreeing that all Japanese people on the west coast must go to internment camps? Probably not.

I would draw that parallel.

And I would take all the downvotes for doing so, too, that you may be spared. :)

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#267

Post by jahmed »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #244
peckrob wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have said, they only apply to minors (under 18) and are usually restricted to certain hours and days. And they can vary depending on the cities, counties and states. It can be a kinda confusing mishmash of laws for those who live near the borders. I grew up outside Knoxville, Tennessee. The curfew in the city was 17-18, Monday-Thursday, 11pm-6am, Friday-Sunday, Midnight-6am. 16 and under, subtract an hour f…

It seems like one of those laws that is a "convenience law." I.e., it's there for the convenience of the police if they see something suspicious and want to question you, or something they can hit you with if they don't like your attitude. That that simply to provide something to charge you with? If you are acting suspicious, surely they have the power to question you anyway curfew law or no curfew law?

Sure but that not the most useful aspect of this. If you are out past curfew and underage you've committed a crime. The police officer has a specific and arcticuble reason to perform a terry stop and search you. If they find something illegal on you that's a bonus but now you're trapped. Its an easy way to establish probable cause and gain compliance.

Even better is looking young and driving past curfew. Again this is the kind of thing officer will use for a PC stop. Sure you're 20 but the officer doesn't know than until you've been stopped and provided license, registration, and proof of insurance.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#268

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

briandh wrote: post #264
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>moving our business there That would be genuinely insane.

It would depend a lot on where he/she would be moving from how "insane" it would be. Though I agree there are better jurisdictions than the US to move a business to.

Does any other jurisdiction ban one's company from leaving? None that I'm aware of.

Just losing that future option value is sufficient to deem such a move insane regardless of original jurisdiction - unless for some reason there is zero other option.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#270

Post by pdkl95 »

stonogo wrote: post #52
smackfu wrote: post #18

One key point with this study is that it only covers people who were born between 1980 and 1984, and follows them through their lives. The summary articles tend to ignore that, and imply the same stats apply to people born in all years.

Do you have reason to believe that people born during that window are particularly jail-prone?

There is one particularly well-correlated explanation for the higher rates of violent crime in roughly that time window: Ethyl (tetraethyl lead).

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-li...

edit: as noted in neighboring posts, "arrest" != "crime"

Post reply on HN