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This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

ariannasimpson.com

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Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#261

Post by Crito »

DorintheFlora wrote: post #253
Crito wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I do not feel comfortable doing anything even approaching policing other people's relationships. The most I would feel okay with doing is asking "Is everything okay here?" , but even that is quite an ask and I would not consider it unless I noticed that one of the people was visibly upset. Yeah, before you say it, "me feeling uncomfortable" is a pretty selfish excuse for not helping somebody that is feeling a h…

If you care: Sometimes, just looking may help. Just don't turn a blind eye to it, which is what most men do in such situations. If the woman feels she has a sympathetic supporter, it is easier to defend herself and if the jerk thinks there is an eyewitness to his assholish behavior, he may tone it down without you needing to say something. I think saying something may be counterproductive (because when accused people…

Sure, that's fine.

If I see something that seems off, I might try to enter the conversation. If I see something that really seems off, I might ask if both of them are okay. If it is more extreme than that, I am open to taking more extreme action.

What I'm not going to do is orbit the room interrogating people about their relationships without seeing any warning signals.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#262

Post by dragonwriter »

DorintheFlora wrote: post #247
dragonwriter wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would it? I think it would draw more attention and useful discussion from people interested in doing more than emoting sympathy, complaining about discussions of women's negative experiences, or discussing abstractly whether addressing the situation in the moment would be more productive. Whether it would actually spread any more is another question, and one on which I don't have a strong feeling about.

In other words: It is just speculation. You (apparently) do not have a real world example to cite. I am female. I have blogged before about some of my struggles with the glass ceiling, etc. It got no attention. Perhaps I was doing something wrong. But, as someone who has firsthand experience which contradicts your suggestion, I would be genuinely interested in seeing actual evidence. If I can find an example that wor…

> In other words: It is just speculation.

No, in other words, I'm not the person that made the "wildfire" claim, just someone who clarified someone else's presentation of it, and I'm not even trying to support it, though I do think the recommendation made in the post in which it is presented is good for other reasons besides how the recommended action would (or would not) accelerate the spread of the story.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#263

Post by throwawaycoder »

runjake wrote: post #68
rfnslyr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how far removed real problems are from our society. "The intimidation, the mental abuse aspect of it is enough." versus Collecting wood in a forest 40km away so you can stoke a fire and your family can eat. Tell the guy to get his hands off you, grab a seat, introduce yourself. Everyone needs an emotional baby sitter and therapist nowadays.

Not many people could cut it through pioneer life [1], either. So, I don't get your point at all. 1. Lived in the woods by myself for an extended period. Fun looking back on it now, but was not fun at the time.

So how did living in the woods compare to being hugged by a stranger of the opposite sex?

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#264

Post by pstack »

zasz wrote: post #36
meritt wrote: post #3

> In my mind, it’s a little preposterous that if I want to do so, however, I have to be ok with being felt up and indirectly insulted. To the author: You're right, it's unacceptable but you know how to fix it? You say something at the point in which it occurs. Nip it in the bud. Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree…

What exactly do you want her to say? "Hi, stop being a dick, because this kind of behavior is a serious turn off to women who want to be involved in tech?" That's obviously not going to fly. So what about, "Hi, could you not awkwardly hug me?" What people say in response to that is, "Why are you being mean to me? I was just trying to be friendly." It's extremely hard to say something in the moment without getting ste…

I know that, without reservation, my fiance would respond to such a situation with a "dude, what the fuck?! Get off me!" rather than demurely accepting the situation and biting her tongue until she could get home and blog about it.

Don't characterize my statement to be blaming the person who was "victim" here. I'm just reiterating that the original poster is not being unreasonable to suggest such a response might have been appropriate and even expected. Given the circumstances, I'm actually somewhat baffled as to why it did not happen. The person was at local meeting with other people and her male friend. She wasn't some lone girl on a subway train packed to the gills where some vile beast was surreptitiously pawing at her.

She certainly isn't obligated to say or do anything, but suggesting she or questioning why she didn't is an entirely rational way to follow up to hearing a story like this.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#265

Post by gosukiwi »

All she had to do is say aloud that she was unconfortable and why did he had his hand there... Surprisingly most american girls just don't know how to interact with that kind of people, seems to me for the ammount of similar posts out there, I know some girls that would have just make the guy blush and just have a nice time there.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#266

Post by Crito »

wonderzombie wrote: post #255
Crito wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I do not feel comfortable doing anything even approaching policing other people's relationships. The most I would feel okay with doing is asking "Is everything okay here?" , but even that is quite an ask and I would not consider it unless I noticed that one of the people was visibly upset. Yeah, before you say it, "me feeling uncomfortable" is a pretty selfish excuse for not helping somebody that is feeling a h…

Nobody ought to ask you to do something you're uncomfortable with, and nobody ought to expect you to be the social enforcer or whatever. I empathize 100%. But if a woman's body language seems particularly bad, or you know your friend/acquaintance only just met this person? That seems like a good opportunity to speak up without "interrogating" people, as you put it. Truth be told, it's more about friends who enable th…

> But if a woman's body language seems particularly bad, or you know your friend/acquaintance only just met this person? That seems like a good opportunity to speak up without "interrogating" people, as you put it.

That seems reasonable to me. You make a good point about friends enabling assholes too.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#267

Post by andrewflnr »

clavalle wrote: post #53
jpwright wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many more posts like this are needed to convince you that the whole community of tech meetups is hostile towards women? Of course that individual deserves the lion's share of the blame, but writing this off as an isolated individual acting inappropriately misses the forest for the trees (i.e. misses the root cause [culture] for the proximate cause [assholes]). To further analogize, perhaps the bad apple was there…

When did we all start agreeing that some amorphous force called 'culture' is out there compelling individuals to act badly? It seems like an extremely convenient gremlin. It can mean almost anything in any context and can act as both a sink and a fountain for blame.

Most people are mostly products of their culture. It's very possible to rise above it, but it takes work, and you first have to figure out which of the values and attitudes you've already absorbed, from culture and other sources, need to be changed.

This doesn't compel anyone to do anything, but if culture makes a certain behavior the low-energy path, that's worth some blame. Individual responsibility to get out of the low-energy path is a separate concern.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#268

Post by throwawaycoder »

zasz wrote: post #36
meritt wrote: post #3

> In my mind, it’s a little preposterous that if I want to do so, however, I have to be ok with being felt up and indirectly insulted. To the author: You're right, it's unacceptable but you know how to fix it? You say something at the point in which it occurs. Nip it in the bud. Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree…

What exactly do you want her to say? "Hi, stop being a dick, because this kind of behavior is a serious turn off to women who want to be involved in tech?" That's obviously not going to fly. So what about, "Hi, could you not awkwardly hug me?" What people say in response to that is, "Why are you being mean to me? I was just trying to be friendly." It's extremely hard to say something in the moment without getting ste…

So you'd worry about hurting the feelings of somebody who just overstepped into your private space? Doesn't make sense. Why not just say "hands off" or whatever, no need to back it up with an elaborate theory.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#269

Post by throwawaycoder »

dogecoinbase wrote: post #149
rfnslyr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how far removed real problems are from our society. "The intimidation, the mental abuse aspect of it is enough." versus Collecting wood in a forest 40km away so you can stoke a fire and your family can eat. Tell the guy to get his hands off you, grab a seat, introduce yourself. Everyone needs an emotional baby sitter and therapist nowadays.

This from the guy who lived in his mom's basement learning to code[1] and whose "goal in life" is to get rich in an acquihire[2]. I have some pretty legitimate doubts that you know the slightest thing about either primitive lifestyles and their hardships, or modern lifestyles and their hardships. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7112803 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7052008

Nice ad hominem.

I suppose you endured a lot of hardship which entitles you to look down on people who have it "easy" in life.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#270

Post by dragonwriter »

wonderzombie wrote: post #255
Crito wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I do not feel comfortable doing anything even approaching policing other people's relationships. The most I would feel okay with doing is asking "Is everything okay here?" , but even that is quite an ask and I would not consider it unless I noticed that one of the people was visibly upset. Yeah, before you say it, "me feeling uncomfortable" is a pretty selfish excuse for not helping somebody that is feeling a h…

Nobody ought to ask you to do something you're uncomfortable with, and nobody ought to expect you to be the social enforcer or whatever. I empathize 100%. But if a woman's body language seems particularly bad, or you know your friend/acquaintance only just met this person? That seems like a good opportunity to speak up without "interrogating" people, as you put it. Truth be told, it's more about friends who enable th…

But people can (and many do) engage in socially unacceptable behavior more, or exclusively, in contexts in which their friends (or people that know them more generally) aren't around to recognize them and observe it.
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