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Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

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Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#261

Post by Zak »

corresation wrote: post #98
jordan0day wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for that 30,000+ figure? The FBI statistics link in this thread mentions around 8600 firearm-related murders for 2011 (but not suicide or accidents). That's the only hard data I've seen in this thread so far though. In these sorts of threads, anecdotes and hyperbole can quickly overrule data and thoughtfulness, so I'm just hoping that numbers like "30,000+" aren't being pulled out of thin air. I'…

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19/american-gun-deaths... As others have mentioned, a hefty percentage of those deaths are suicides. Would those suicides have happened if the option of a firearm wasn't available? Perhaps.

http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/vprp/publications/firearmsuicid...

People in their first week of gun ownership kill themselves 57 times more frequently than the general public. That suggests to me that people who are determined to die are buying guns for the express purpose of suicide, and would probably select some other method if it was too difficult to obtain a gun.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#262

Post by edtechdev »

hga wrote: post #243
edtechdev wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"you're talking about the number of households that admit to owning a gun, not the real number" Looks like you either didn't read the short sentence I posted, or didn't think about it before responding, because that doesn't say anything against the evidence that there is lower gun ownership today than there was 20 years ago, only that the actual percentage back then AND now is likely higher than surveys suggest, but…

Heh, your own descriptions of the research impeach it. "Acquaintance" of course includes e.g. drug dealers killing each other. They are generally "acquaintances" if not exactly friends, or friends any more; in general, stranger murders are relatively rare. And your citation first mentions Arthur Kellerman, who's infamous for scoring undesired civilian deaths vs. civilians killing criminals, when such killing cannot l…

You didn't even bother to read the article, it says "family member or intimate acquaintance." If you're intimate with "drug dealers killing each other" then I stand corrected.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#263

Post by grey-area »

joshuahedlund wrote: post #162
grey-area wrote: post #147

Homicide rates in the US are still significantly higher than other developed nations, so there's a long way to go: US 4.8 per 100,000 in 2012 UK 1.2 France 1.1 Germany 0.8 Japan 0.4 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona... I wonder why this paper doesn't use the statistics from 2012, which show an uptick to 4.8?

It's unfair to compare the best state-sized countries with the entire United States, which has several states 7+ but also several 2 and under. It would be better to compare the US to the closer-sized Europe, which is 3.5. Still a legitimate difference, but not nearly as stark.

The figures are adjusted for population, so I don't see why size would affect the figures, and as the other poster said comparing recently joined Eastern European states with the US is not very useful as they are at a very different stage of development. If you break it down by states almost every US state has statistics far worse than Western Europe, to which they should be fairly comparable.

There are lots of variables here, including varying gun ownership, gun control, and states like Switzerland show you can have ownership without high rates of killing (though they restrict ammo), but widespread private ownership for self-defence in the US does seem to correlate with high rates of homicide (inc. suicide), and other countries with tighter restrictions and a different attitude to guns have far lower rates of death associated with firearms.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#264

Post by Pewpewarrows »

ebbv wrote: post #185
Pewpewarrows wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an awfully wrong approach. As with things like Alcohol, if you teach your children how to operate and act responsibly, they get into less trouble with it as an adult. If you stilt their growth and don't allow them to touch a gun until they're 18, they won't have developed enough to handle it themselves without supervision.

Wait are you advocating we lower the drinking age to produce more responsible drinkers? I think you'll find most irresponsible drinkers started before 21 anyway.

Starting before 21 legally != Starting before 21 illegally

You'd be surprised how much of a difference it makes when you remove the rebelliousness and allure of doing something illegally. You see this time and time again with parents sheltering their children from certain activities or harsh realities.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#265

Post by dyno12345 »

hga wrote: post #250
dyno12345 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want the freedom to have claymore mines and hand grenades.

A point I've made in a previous discussion is that we clearly draw a line between directed and undirected weapons, and therefore claymores and grenades are verboten , but something like 250,000 full auto guns are legally in the hands of US citizens.

Claymores are directed. You have to point it in a particular direction and manually pull a trigger.

I don't see how it's less deadly to a crowd than a belt-fed automatic rifle

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#266

Post by pionar »

DennisP wrote: post #232
pionar wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Burst fire IS semi-auto, despite the other commenter. Automatic firing means that when you hold down the trigger it continues to fire until either the trigger is released or the ammunition supply is exhausted.

The federal government does not consider burst to be semi-auto. Semi-auto rifles are legal for civilians without any special license. Automatic weapons require a Class III license and no civilian can buy one manufactured after 1986. Three-round burst falls into the later category, and any gun store in the U.S. will use the same terminology as the ATF.

I've been in many gun shops, never heard them referred to as automatic weapons. At least in the midwest, I've heard them referred to as either "burst" or Class III weapons.
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