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How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

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Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#261

Post by anigbrowl »

chime wrote: post #225
ajross wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where I simply don't understand the thought process. You got burned and had to write a check, and you're angry. And yes, a more efficient and effective tax regime ( which is what the linked article is about! ) would have caught that faster and you would have been less angry. But that's where this has to stop -- your rationalizations just don't hold water. I mean, really: how is paying 4% APR on a loan[1] you…

> I mean, really: how is paying 4% APR on a loan[1] you got from the government "at their mercy?". It's not even a bad rate for an unsecured loan! People routinely pay much higher for car loans, and even now mortgages (which are at historic lows) are only a little better. Because I didn't want the loan. What's not to understand. I wouldn't have had a problem paying the full amount if they had told me sooner. Also it…

Because I didn't want the loan. What's not to understand. I wouldn't have had a problem paying the full amount if they had told me sooner. Also it was over 6% because it was 2+ years and not 3.

You had the use of the money in the meantime, which has a value. As for the delay in your citizenship, IRS does not make that rule, it's written into the immigration law.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#262

Post by paulyg »

ams6110 wrote: post #135
paulyg wrote: post #109

Many in this thread seem to be glazing over one important detail. This system would be opt-in. Don't trust the IRS? Have a lot of complicated deductions? Hire a CPA or use Turbo Tax or fill out the paper yourself. Approx 13% of filers used a 1040ez last year. This system is perfect for them. I would venture a guess that 1/2 of 1040a filers could also use it. Again though it is your (hopefully informed) choice to do s…

Being more cynical... deducting taxes from your paycheck before you even get the money is already (by design) lowering awareness of how much we are taxed. Imagine if we had to write a check to the IRS every month like we pay our utility bills... Making your tax return a "click here" effort while on the one hand appealing has the disadvantage of further reducing your awareness of how much you are taxed. This is why I…

The only two monthly expenses I still write a check for is the water and sewer. That does not stop me from realizing how expensive my mortgage, electric, etc is. Trying to save people from their own stupidity or ignorance by making them fill out menial former is not the answer.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#263

Post by niggler »

sschueller wrote: post #254
cletus wrote: post #236

There are two things that disturb me about the US government: 1. As a whole, it seems to operate on the assumption of guilt; and 2. It seems bought and paid for by special interests, pork barrelling and so forth. As a foreigner I of course have foreign retirement and bank accounts. If they total more than $10,000 (at any point in the last calendar year) you need to report them. This is FBAR (Foreign Bank Account Repo…

Worst part is that we have to pay US taxes as well local taxes even if we don't live or make any money in the US. If you live in a county with an effective lower tax rate you have to pay the difference. I take home less money than someone with the same job and same expenses. In addition it's so cumbersome to file from abroad that I have to pay someone. It's like the king of England collecting taxes from the ones who…

"Worst part is that we have to pay US taxes as well local taxes even if we don't live or make any money in the US."

You can resign your citizenship. I remember hearing reports of people doing this last year (going to Singapore)

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#264

Post by [deleted] »

sschueller wrote: post #254
cletus wrote: post #236

There are two things that disturb me about the US government: 1. As a whole, it seems to operate on the assumption of guilt; and 2. It seems bought and paid for by special interests, pork barrelling and so forth. As a foreigner I of course have foreign retirement and bank accounts. If they total more than $10,000 (at any point in the last calendar year) you need to report them. This is FBAR (Foreign Bank Account Repo…

Worst part is that we have to pay US taxes as well local taxes even if we don't live or make any money in the US. If you live in a county with an effective lower tax rate you have to pay the difference. I take home less money than someone with the same job and same expenses. In addition it's so cumbersome to file from abroad that I have to pay someone. It's like the king of England collecting taxes from the ones who…

[deleted]

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#265

Post by nzealand »

cletus wrote: post #236

There are two things that disturb me about the US government: 1. As a whole, it seems to operate on the assumption of guilt; and 2. It seems bought and paid for by special interests, pork barrelling and so forth. As a foreigner I of course have foreign retirement and bank accounts. If they total more than $10,000 (at any point in the last calendar year) you need to report them. This is FBAR (Foreign Bank Account Repo…

> I don't understand why other governments don't seem so easily bought and sold for a pittance

I was in Scotland with my US born wife. The airwaves were rife with outrage. Politicians had expensed $200 radios to government accounts that were for personal use. My wife could not believe the country was so focused on a pittance.

I think of it like broken windows and graffiti in New York. Once in a while, something big like Watergate or Blagojevich comes along. Otherwise America doesn't care. Other countries do care. There is a principle at stake.

New Zealand for instance, is one of the least corrupt countries in the world. One of the oldest and most popular TV shows is called Fair Go. Fair Go largely deals with tiny little grievances. But the country, as a whole, cares.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#266

Post by drstewart »

cletus wrote: post #236

There are two things that disturb me about the US government: 1. As a whole, it seems to operate on the assumption of guilt; and 2. It seems bought and paid for by special interests, pork barrelling and so forth. As a foreigner I of course have foreign retirement and bank accounts. If they total more than $10,000 (at any point in the last calendar year) you need to report them. This is FBAR (Foreign Bank Account Repo…

>In Australia I think they can go back 7 years. No idea what it is in the US.

It's 3 years. And fairly easy to look up:

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Em...

Those records generally should be kept for three years from the date the tax return was filed.

>Yes by all means send me to prison for failing to mention a $24,000 retirement account in Australia I can't touch until I'm 65 instead. Great use of resources.

The IRS doesn't put anyone in prison for making a mistake. You have to willfully try to cheat on your taxes, multiple times, before you're even close to the position of facing jail time.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#267

Post by niggler »

drstewart wrote: post #266
cletus wrote: post #236

There are two things that disturb me about the US government: 1. As a whole, it seems to operate on the assumption of guilt; and 2. It seems bought and paid for by special interests, pork barrelling and so forth. As a foreigner I of course have foreign retirement and bank accounts. If they total more than $10,000 (at any point in the last calendar year) you need to report them. This is FBAR (Foreign Bank Account Repo…

>In Australia I think they can go back 7 years. No idea what it is in the US. It's 3 years. And fairly easy to look up: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Em... Those records generally should be kept for three years from the date the tax return was filed. >Yes by all means send me to prison for failing to mention a $24,000 retirement account in Australia I can't touch until I'm 65 instead. Great us…

"The IRS doesn't put anyone in prison for making a mistake. You have to willfully try to cheat on your taxes, multiple times, before you're even close to the position of facing jail time."

You only really face jail time if you do something else on top of tax evasion (like money laundering for a drug cartel).

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#268

Post by ilaksh »

xenophanes wrote: post #204
ilaksh wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't going to get something that works better without altering the fundamental structures. The way things are set up you can't take lobbying, money, and special interests out of government. Because every politician needs money for everything and there is one number tied to your bank account that goes up or down on the basis of how much people give you, with little to no accounting for what you did to get it. Wh…

Trying to make people do the right thing with math and technology sounds scary as hell. How will that work? What about edge cases and outliers? What we need is philosophy and persuasion. People need to learn better and understand why there actually are benefits to doing the right thing, not have an algorithm monitor them and punish for deviations. Doing the right thing already is in one's self-interest. The problem i…

I agree that we should improve philosophy and education but I think you are mistaken about incorporating math and technology into 'doing the right thing' being scary. What we have now is what's scary -- a game with no automatic enforcement of rules and very few rules to begin with, where everything is up to the discretion of what amounts to a bunch of dungeon masters. Only in this 'game' the dungeon master only likes say 1 out of 10 players, he gives them all of the breaks, and the rest are working with rigged dice. I'm suggesting that even though World of Warcraft can have a lot of loopholes and corruption, its more fair than Dungeons and Dragons, or Monopoly.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#269

Post by chime »

ajross wrote: post #257
chime wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, really: how is paying 4% APR on a loan[1] you got from the government "at their mercy?". It's not even a bad rate for an unsecured loan! People routinely pay much higher for car loans, and even now mortgages (which are at historic lows) are only a little better. Because I didn't want the loan. What's not to understand. I wouldn't have had a problem paying the full amount if they had told me sooner. Also it…

The facts keep changing here. How does a 12% interest accumulation on a $500 loan come out to $3000? Or maybe the $500 was the interest, in which case your "loan" amount was $4167 (which, I'll just say again, is hardly an insignificant fact -- lots of people would love to get a $4k loan at 4% with a 3-year baloon payment!). And I don't see why you ended up paying the remaining $2500k to a lawyer when even you admit t…

Interest was just $65-$70 or so on the $500 'loan'. $3k was in accountant, tax attorney, paperwork fees. We also had to pay her school to send notarized transcripts to IRS because they wanted proof that she even went to school. And since the IRS letter arrived just 2 days before their deadline, we had to pay extra to the school to get it delivered overnight. Most annoying part is that Sallie Mae was the one that gave out the loan directly to her school.

I'm not saying the citizenship was IRS fault. I said a $500 'loan' that I never asked for, had no intention of 'stealing', had no way to know was pending, ended up causing months of paperwork, hassles, and undue stress. It is appalling that people expect me to treat this like a wonderful tax refund instead of what it was - absolute waste of productive time.

All of this could've been avoided by a single rule in IRS tax processing system that auto-sends a letter or email saying 'Our records show X yrs of Y lifetime credit have already been claimed. Please refile.' And I'm certain that I'm not the only person who had to go through a similar thing.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#270

Post by diego »

cletus wrote: post #236

There are two things that disturb me about the US government: 1. As a whole, it seems to operate on the assumption of guilt; and 2. It seems bought and paid for by special interests, pork barrelling and so forth. As a foreigner I of course have foreign retirement and bank accounts. If they total more than $10,000 (at any point in the last calendar year) you need to report them. This is FBAR (Foreign Bank Account Repo…

2. Is the subject of Republic Lost by Larry Lessig. I could not recommend that book enough.

http://www.amazon.com/Republic-Lost-Money-Corrupts-Congress/...

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