The Kimi K3 Moment • Hacker News Board

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#261

Post by gpm » Sat, Jul 18, 2026, 10:44 PM UTC

nubg wrote: post #257

gpm wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Downloading every torrent of all e-books ever is pretty clearly illegal (or at least it fuckin would be if I did it). Pretty sure like, multiple labs have been popped for that though. Oh it is, and at least anthropic has paid $1.5 billion and deleted there torrented copies and not released any models derived from them as a consequence. The thing is it turns out to be not that expensive to just buy a copy of every b…

> and deleted there torrented copies and not released any models derived from them as a consequence. I have a bridge to sell you

Great, let's go down to the courthouse and get some sworn testimony as to the ownership, value, condition, and so on and so forth of the bridge. And some document review and discovery run through professional legal firms under the same conditions. And perfectly reasonable and verifiable explanations as to why you own the bridge and are selling it (namely that you bought a copy of literally every book in existence in the meantime).

Facts are in fact knowable, and the US legal system is in fact not terrible at getting to them.

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#262

Post by tristanj » Sat, Jul 18, 2026, 10:46 PM UTC

orangecat wrote: post #208

tristanj wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is incorrect. Anthropic paid $1.5 billion in compensation to copyright holders for use of their content in training data. OpenAI pays hundreds of millions per year across 150+ licensing deals for access to copyrighted data. Meta and Alphabet have similar arrangements. Under the settlement, Anthropic was forced to delete the pirated data they were training on. Chinese labs can still train on pirated data. I doubt…

Anthropic paid $1.5 billion in compensation to copyright holders for use of their content in training data. The payment was for illegally downloading copyrighted material, not training. Training was explicitly ruled to be fair use.

Partially correct. The court explicitly ruled that training on pirated data, which is what Anthropic was doing, is not considered fair use.

Training on legally acquired / licensed data is potentially fair use.

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#263

Post by akrymski » Sat, Jul 18, 2026, 10:48 PM UTC

nickysielicki wrote: post #33

Regardless of whether they achieved parity via distillation, or whether they got here via independently constructing a model from scratch, it was always going to end this way for the frontier American labs. Distillation “attacks” are not attacks. The frontier labs “distilled” all existing human written knowledge into their models, there was always going to be a second class lab that would distill that model into a ch…

Well, there is precedence: Google can scrape the web, but you can't scrape Google. Laws around compiled databases exist for a reason: you can't just copy the phone book if effort has gone into compiling it, it is itself copyrightable

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#264

Post by gpm » Sat, Jul 18, 2026, 10:48 PM UTC

fooblaster wrote: post #260

gpm wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vast, vast, VAST majority of the original datasets were from pirated books and the like And there's been significant legal consequences as a result > Also, arguably a robots.txt is the exact mechanism to follow to do the mass GET-ing You're free to argue this of course, but the courts have largely rejected it already pre LLMs. See for example hiQ Labs v. LinkedIn

Yes, anthropic and openai have really been brought to their knees and ipos cancelled because of the legal consequences of obtaining their training data.

This would have been a problem but it turns out that Anthropic is actually valued multiple orders of magnitude more than a copy of all the books in the world. So they survived the significant legal consequences.

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#265

Post by osti » Sat, Jul 18, 2026, 10:48 PM UTC

xyzsparetimexyz wrote: post #220

segmondy wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how do we get chinese phone numbers?

esim

Nah that won't work. I don't know tbh, I just used someone else's number.

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#266

Post by osti » Sat, Jul 18, 2026, 10:49 PM UTC

SwellJoe wrote: post #245

osti wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely do not pay for the kimi plans thinking they will be cheaper. If you sign up with a Chinese phone number, you can get the same plan for 200 yuan instead of 200 usd, it also only accepts Chinese payment methods iirc. So the plans are really made for Chinese userbase.

That sounds complicated. I'll just use my month of Kimi and then cancel. I have too many AI subscriptions to use them all, anyway. I subscribed mostly to test it. I mean, if it turned out to be competitive, I would keep it, but if it doesn't turn out to really excel and anything and also take longer than Claude or OpenAI models, I'll stick with them.

It is complicated, but paying for the cheaper usd plans really don't get you much usage.

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#267

Post by tristanj » Sat, Jul 18, 2026, 10:49 PM UTC

codedokode wrote: post #228

tristanj wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is incorrect. Anthropic paid $1.5 billion in compensation to copyright holders for use of their content in training data. OpenAI pays hundreds of millions per year across 150+ licensing deals for access to copyrighted data. Meta and Alphabet have similar arrangements. Under the settlement, Anthropic was forced to delete the pirated data they were training on. Chinese labs can still train on pirated data. I doubt…

They only paid when they got caught. And not to everyone.

But they still paid. I don't see any Chinese labs paying billion dollar infringement settlements.

Chinese labs can freely train on pirated material, which is a structural advantage.

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#268

Post by p_l » Sat, Jul 18, 2026, 10:50 PM UTC

akrymski wrote: post #263

nickysielicki wrote: post #33

Regardless of whether they achieved parity via distillation, or whether they got here via independently constructing a model from scratch, it was always going to end this way for the frontier American labs. Distillation “attacks” are not attacks. The frontier labs “distilled” all existing human written knowledge into their models, there was always going to be a second class lab that would distill that model into a ch…

Well, there is precedence: Google can scrape the web, but you can't scrape Google. Laws around compiled databases exist for a reason: you can't just copy the phone book if effort has gone into compiling it, it is itself copyrightable

And funnily enough, most laws about compiled databases might not apply, for one.

And then there's new updates related to AI that fully take out LLMs from protection.

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#269

Post by HarHarVeryFunny » Sat, Jul 18, 2026, 10:51 PM UTC

According to OpenAI's "head of strategic futures":

1) Kimi 3 is a "very good model"

2) It's performance can NOT be explained by distillation

3) The US government should create FUD to stop US corporations from using it (so they use OpenAI instead)

https://x.com/deanwball/status/2078133895766114412

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#270

Post by osti » Sat, Jul 18, 2026, 10:52 PM UTC

xyzsparetimexyz wrote: post #218

osti wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely do not pay for the kimi plans thinking they will be cheaper. If you sign up with a Chinese phone number, you can get the same plan for 200 yuan instead of 200 usd, it also only accepts Chinese payment methods iirc. So the plans are really made for Chinese userbase.

Wow! Does it accept a foreign alipay/wechat pay account?

No idea lol, didn't even know those exist..