Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 308 posts

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#261

Post by drdexebtjl »

strictnein wrote: post #243
aleqs wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no control about where TLS is terminated when you're talking to a 3p cloud service (with services you don't control/run like cloud LLM APIs). You also have no control about what spyware is installed on/around VMs you rent (and there's a lot). Also when talking about encryption between servers within datacenters you seem to be missing that in order for such multi -stage/path encryption (separate certs/keys) t…

> Yours and others' claims that it's impossible and nonsensical is based on lack of understanding. lol, no, it's really not. > Also when talking about encryption between servers within datacenters you seem to be missing that in order for such multi -stage/path encryption (separate certs/keys) to be possible the data first has to be decrypted at each point Why would I want the data to be decrypted at each point and wh…

> Why would I want the data to be decrypted at each point and why would datacenters do that?

I think they mean the data must have existed in plain text before it was encrypted, and will exist in plain text after it is decrypted.

At some point “your” server in a datacenter somewhere needs to decrypt the data to do something useful with it, after all you’re paying for compute, and homeomorphic encryption is too slow, so the work is done in unencrypted data.

There it is. Your data in plain text in RAM.

TLS will protect your data in transit, but it can’t protect you against a compromised recipient.

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#262

Post by aleqs »

strictnein wrote: post #243
aleqs wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no control about where TLS is terminated when you're talking to a 3p cloud service (with services you don't control/run like cloud LLM APIs). You also have no control about what spyware is installed on/around VMs you rent (and there's a lot). Also when talking about encryption between servers within datacenters you seem to be missing that in order for such multi -stage/path encryption (separate certs/keys) t…

> Yours and others' claims that it's impossible and nonsensical is based on lack of understanding. lol, no, it's really not. > Also when talking about encryption between servers within datacenters you seem to be missing that in order for such multi -stage/path encryption (separate certs/keys) to be possible the data first has to be decrypted at each point Why would I want the data to be decrypted at each point and wh…

> lol, no, it's really not.

Yeah it definitely is lol.

> Why would I want the data to be decrypted at each point and why would datacenters do that?

When we talk about data that is sent for processing to a 3p server (like anthropic in this case) the data obviously needs to be decrypted to be processed.

As to why data is decrypted at each point in a typical large backend system - because other than network routing there are presumably multiple services that need to receive and act on this data somehow - you're not just sending encrypted data around to random servers.

> there's absolutely no way for them to strip off my encryption.

You don't seem to understand that you have no control over the encryption or decryption done on the backends of cloud services you use. I don't know how to make it more simple and obvious at this point.

Again, the context here is Anthropic and sending your data to their (or any other big tech API). But even if we move away from this model and suppose you are running your own services on rented cloud VM - then it should be obvious that you don't have full control or even access to this VM... any actor with access can install or modify any software, install/modify EBPF, modified crypto libraries, etc. - you have absolutely no control or say over this.

> Things didn't magically get better.

Things didn't get better at all, they got much worse.

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#263

Post by joquarky »

chasd00 wrote: post #193
medlazik wrote: post #29

AI marketing bullshit stunts are unlike anything I've seen in 30 years. It started with MS Copilot so called capabilities for work, which were completely made up use cases that didn't work at all (3 years later still). We've had OpenAI "AGI is coming" and "AI will take your job", now we have Mythos being so "dangerous" for cybersecurity, which of course makes the average Joe interpret it as Anthropic being "the bette…

I haven’t heard anything about AGI in a long while. Oh yeah, and per conversations last Jan we were all supposed to be out of our jobs by now.

I'm just glad there are so many jobs. Just look at the latest unemployment numbers! I wonder if this era of peace and prosperity will be remembered as the peak of humanity?

And did you see that chocolate rations increased again last month! It's literally incredible.

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#264

Post by wolvoleo »

nl wrote: post #254
dlmanning wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally I strongly reject the idea that labor displacement is unethical. Oh, well if you STRONGLY reject it I guess that's it. > It will be a serious problem to deal with, but that doesn't make it unethical. What WOULD make it unethical? > The steam engine displaced labor. That doesn't make it unethical. The steam engine also created new jobs to replace what it eliminated. It wasn't a mostly one-sided wealth tra…

> The steam engine also created new jobs to replace what it eliminated. It wasn't a mostly one-sided wealth transfer to the elite. Indeed. You make my point for me.

What are those to be created jobs going to be doing that AI won't be able to?

There's two big differences with the steam machine: this change is happening much faster so society has much less time to adapt, and it's got a much wider scope. Steam machines only replaced a small category of jobs.

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#266

Post by wolvoleo »

tux3 wrote: post #99
dofm wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA managed to deliberately insert a backdoor into elliptic-curve cryptography right under the noses of everyone capable of making elliptic-curve cryptography. I wouldn't count them out.

Mathematicians in academia are paid a little less than AI researchers. Companies are willing to pay billions to steal the few people capable of driving development of frontier LLMs from each other. Cryptographers don't quite enjoy the same popularity.

Does getting paid more make people smarter?

Especially academia tend to do their work out of interest, their monetary gain isn't their primary goal

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#267

Post by wolvoleo »

distill17801 wrote: post #170
ai_critic wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://blog.encrypt.me/2013/11/05/ssl-added-and-removed-her... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A Yeah, they did (and probably do).

I recall having a nuclear meltdown personally when I heard about all of this in the mid aughts. Nobody cared. Nobody understands this today. Everyone just complains about the Donald, but I point to this, and they don't realize the connection.

Even after Snowden exposed everything, nobody really cared unfortunately

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#268

Post by djhn »

gaiagraphia wrote: post #227
teravor wrote: post #112

mythos allowed mediocre people to get results by holding their hand through the process, or just ignoring their irrelevant input and knowing what to do. if you throw millions of tokens at IDA Pro MCP with the right prompt lets just say security by obscurity fails miserably because there is no obscurity when the LLM chews through the decompilation.

"mediocre people" I'm glad to see the mask is falling off the privileged caste. Is there anything inherently wrong about open access to tools? (Apart from rent payments).

> (Apart from rent payments).

Privilege enables you to rent competence, historically by paying other people. The slop companies will now sell you a simulacrum of competence by the token.

The fact that competence can (could?) only be acquired through sustained effort over a long period of time is (was?) levelling the field.

Selling simulated competence perpetuates privilege, instead of dismantling it like you seem to claim.

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#269

Post by ifwinterco »

aspenmartin wrote: post #146
ifwinterco wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is both OpenAI and Anthropic have lied so many times that it’s no longer rational to take anything they say at face value. Also: they don’t have to know they’re lying to say things that aren’t true. There is definitely some cult-like behaviour at the moment on the west coast

Be specific, what do you consider their lies to be? Also, this is pretty straightforward. You have a decade of extremely stable and predictable performance trajectory. It’s easy to see the writing on the wall. You can feel whatever which way about their motivations and ethics but if you read say Dario’s raw words they are pretty reasonable. We have to have a good regulatory framework and do what we can to prepare our…

Every year since 2023 the models are too dangerous to release and in 12 months all white collar jobs will be obsolete. This might not have been a deliberate lie but it's clearly been untrue and they've said it again and again.

Predictions with wrong timing are frankly worthless. I predict at some point in the future the S&P 500 will be at 10,000. Of course I'm guaranteed to be right. But have I really predicted anything useful?

If Dario was really worried about protecting the sheep, he wouldn't cry wolf every five minutes because everyone knows that's the worst possible thing to do.

And if you want to ask if Altman is trustworthy... ask Satya Nadella or anyone else who's ever made the mistake of doing business with him

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#270

Post by torstenvl »

Onavo wrote: post #213
torstenvl wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be a taking, it would have to be property. Weights are almost certainly not property.

That's for the courts to decide.

Correct. What makes you think existing case law doesn't apply to model weights?
Post reply on HN