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Apple - Think Twice

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Re: Apple - Think Twice

#261

Post by jrochkind1 »

baddox wrote: post #250
kevinalexbrown wrote: post #150

My perspective here is in no way Apple-specific, but I was reminded of something quite interesting in this story: if you pass a test and you still have problems, it probably means the test isn't good enough. Worse, passing a test doesn't magically change the state of the world and make these problems disappear. Turning to the customer and explaining, "there is no problem because you passed the test" does not alter th…

I don't think anyone at Apple would claim that the test magically changes the state of the world. They probably wouldn't even deny that there is a ghosting problem on your machine. It's clear that the test is meant to determine whether the particular machine's ghosting problem is within Apple's acceptable limits. It's just like the dead pixel guarantees you sometimes see on monitors, whereby you get a replacement if…

But your specs for what you repair have to be reasonable if you want to have customers think you deliver a high quality product (and if you want to actually do so).

Two dead pixels near the edge of the screen, okay, most of us think, that's still usable, I'll soon stop noticing. (How many is 'most of us'? Enough that a monitor company can do that, and still be considered to deliver a high quality product).

The ghosting OP describes and takes pictures of? I think would probably interfere with the use of most reasonable people. If those are Apple's specs, then Apple is willing to deliver a crappy product; either Apple made a mistake, their test isn't catching what they meant to catch, or Apple thinks it's going to have enough customers that keep buying Apple anyway even after getting a crappy product, I guess.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#262

Post by jmmcd »

x0r wrote: post #96
msy wrote: post #10

Revision A Apple projects have had issues for as long as Apple has been making products. Second gen Macbook Air's had Logic board issues, 2007 era RevA Macbook Pros had video card issues, dodgy graphics cards on the early Mac Pros, the iPhone4 antenna, the list is endless. Often it's taken years for the issues to be resolved and Apple to pay for repairs, if at all. It's simple, if you want the shiniest tech, buy what…

First gen iPhone here, still going strong. Thanks.

Well, that one data point certainly disproves the entire argument.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#263

Post by Tipzntrix »

eropple wrote: post #239
Tipzntrix wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see with Windows, Microsoft targetted (or at least went WAY out of their way to accommodate) the trailing edge. hell, they even held support for many DOS programs for a long time. This pattern looks like it might be changing with Metro though.

Microsoft did, sure, but I'm referring more to application and game developers. The OS features are nice-to-haves to be sure, but if your applications are outpacing your hardware...

That's mostly fair, but gigantic multiplayer experiences have in general tried to target more modest min. reqs., like Starcraft II on the competitive side, or all of those East asian MMOs on the casual side.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#264

Post by stcredzero »

intellegacy wrote: post #215
stcredzero wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's nonsensical. Wow, I chime in with a on anecdote supporting your position, coupled with a universal truism, and you say I'm promulgating nonsense. Take a chill pill.

It wasn't my intention to come across as an ass, sorry. Your anecdote implies a deeper insight though: if the "genius" is just another standard tech support employee then Apple's use of the moniker is misplaced.

> then Apple's use of the moniker is misplaced

It's called marketing. Also, don't believe everything you read.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#265

Post by papaver »

thank you for posting this!! looks like i ran into in just the knick of time. i just recently purchased a new macbook pro with a retina display for my brother how lives out of the country. will make sure i have a samsung display so he doesn't have ghosting issues or apple care issues in the future!

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#266

Post by stcredzero »

arrrg wrote: post #22

Fuck everything about this. I had two screen replaced, luckily before Apple came up with this idiotic test. On the second replacement I lucked out and got a Samsung screen that doesn’t have the issue. But that they still have not solved that problem that is plain as day fucking sucks! What is wrong with those idiots?! Why do they do stuff like that? It makes my blood boil. Apple, fuck you! Why do you do this to your…

> Fuck everything about this. I had two screen replaced, luckily before Apple came up with this idiotic test.

The cost of those two replacements is probably why they came out with this test.

> But that they still have not solved that problem that is plain as day fucking sucks!

Considering that they have billed the Retina MBP as something to be used by designers and content creators, they shouldn't limit things to an arbitrary test. If the problem is perceived as a problem and can be consistently detected, double blind, then it should be replaced, period.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#267

Post by freehunter »

clarky07 wrote: post #222
freehunter wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with Politician A on every point except one. So since we have that one disagreement, I'm going to vote for politician B instead, with whom I disagree on every issue but this one. One issue doesn't mean you have to hate the phone as a whole, or stop using it. The more acceptable response is to ask that the issue be fixed. Just because an iPhone has signal issues that are inconvenient doesn't mean it's not the…

It's a problem with the phone. Apple offered a free solution, put a case on it. If you don't like that solution, what do you want them to do about it? Re-engineer the phone just for you and give you a replacement? It's not like this was a 1-off problem, like Joe's phone was defective so we replace Joe's phone. EVERY phone was made the same with this problem. You can't just "fix it" for Joe. It isn't a matter of custo…

You're missing the point. Just because there's one problem with the iPhone, no matter how many people it affects, doesn't mean it's automatically a bad choice if every other feature is what you're looking for in a smartphone. If the antenna makes a phone 90/100 but every other phone is still at best 80/100, does switching platforms make sense? It's still a valid issue to complain about, but not enough to make the decision to abandon the platform for some people.

The point is, the iPhone is what these customers were looking for. They still like it enough to keep it, and they like it enough to complain when there are quality issues rather than switch.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#268

Post by baddox »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #261
baddox wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone at Apple would claim that the test magically changes the state of the world. They probably wouldn't even deny that there is a ghosting problem on your machine. It's clear that the test is meant to determine whether the particular machine's ghosting problem is within Apple's acceptable limits. It's just like the dead pixel guarantees you sometimes see on monitors, whereby you get a replacement if…

But your specs for what you repair have to be reasonable if you want to have customers think you deliver a high quality product (and if you want to actually do so). Two dead pixels near the edge of the screen, okay, most of us think, that's still usable, I'll soon stop noticing. (How many is 'most of us'? Enough that a monitor company can do that, and still be considered to deliver a high quality product). The ghosti…

I think I agree, but there's still a tone in your and OP's words that makes it sound like you're appealing to some objective measure of a "high quality product." Obviously, there is no such thing, and different problems will frustrate different people. It's quite possible that 99% of MBP buyers would never even notice that ghosting problem. Does that still make the MBP a "low quality product," and are Apple's policies still unreasonable, or does it just mean that the product simply isn't compatible with OP's needs?

The same thing applies to my dead pixel analogy. Personally, I am extremely distracted by dead pixels (even a single one in a non-retina display drives me crazy). I have always purchased displays with very strict dead pixel tolerances. But it would be ridiculous for me to buy a low-end display then complain that the manufacturer makes crappy products and doesn't care about its customers because they refuse to replace my display that only has a single dead pixel.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#269

Post by personlurking »

j-b wrote: post #194
kevinalexbrown wrote: post #150

My perspective here is in no way Apple-specific, but I was reminded of something quite interesting in this story: if you pass a test and you still have problems, it probably means the test isn't good enough. Worse, passing a test doesn't magically change the state of the world and make these problems disappear. Turning to the customer and explaining, "there is no problem because you passed the test" does not alter th…

Don't forget the old adage that reality is 90% perception. If your customers "think" they have a problem, that in itself is an issue that needs to be dealt with. My customers don't care if their system issues are actually a problem in my software or not. "Not a problem" doesn't work if you want to keep paying customers around.

This also works in personal relationships. If your SO feels hurt by something and you say "oh, grow up!", that doesn't help, even if you think some 'tough love' was needed/adequate. You have to deal with her as someone who is feeling hurt and until she perceives that you understand her, you'll just be sweeping the issue under the rug. I suppose this can be classified as listening but not really hearing.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#270

Post by stcredzero »

michael_miller wrote: post #62
arrrg wrote: post #22

Fuck everything about this. I had two screen replaced, luckily before Apple came up with this idiotic test. On the second replacement I lucked out and got a Samsung screen that doesn’t have the issue. But that they still have not solved that problem that is plain as day fucking sucks! What is wrong with those idiots?! Why do they do stuff like that? It makes my blood boil. Apple, fuck you! Why do you do this to your…

With all due respect, you have to keep in mind that Apple is producing millions of units and, for its own sake, can't be beholden to a single supplier. If they were, that supplier would have enormous leverage ("pay us $5b now, or we will stop shipping you screens for your flagship laptop."). Aside from that, they'd also be susceptible to production issues - imagine if Samsung's factory had a fire/flood/hurricane and…

> Supply chain management at Apple's scale is unbelievably hard. It's certainly not excusable for the issues you're encountering, but from what I've seen / heard, Apple has a top notch supply chain management team pretty much unrivaled by any other company.

Who was it at Apple who said, after you reach a certain level, there are no more excuses?

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