American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn • Hacker News Board

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#261

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 8:16 AM UTC

intended wrote: post #180

satvikpendem wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Educate yourself" is almost always a shibboleth that the speaker of the phrase actually doesn't even know how to explain it to someone. It is a phrase of moral superiority and is not interested in whether the other person actually educates themselves or not. Or they might educate themselves and come to the opposite conclusion as you, in which case, maybe you should have educated (or indoctrinated) them first. https:…

The user in question, begins with assumptions on how wealth and markets work that do not match anything I know of in economics. At one point they say that in a market economy there is no theft. At another point they say that wealth concentration does not occur. To begin to explain how they are working, I would have to invest in understanding the specific ideological framework they are using. Then figure out how to tr…

> The user in question, begins with assumptions on how wealth and markets work that do not match anything I know of in economics.

I'm not surprised. My dad taught free market economics as a professor in his later years. Students would come up to him shocked that there was a case for free markets.

May I recommend any of Milton Friedman's books. Or "Capitalism" by Reisman. https://www.amazon.com/Capitalism-Treatise-Economics-Vol-1/d...

> in a market economy there is no theft

A free market economy is based on no force or fraud, and the government's job is to enforce that.

> wealth concentration does not occur.

Correct, in a free market.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#262

Post by crummy » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 8:19 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #250

antiframe wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation Needed (that they actually made everyone equal and it wasn't just a talking point). You may want to read a history book that talks about how Stalin denounced uravnilovka and about the existence of the nomenklatura.

Well, the Party members were more equal.

so... they made a society with a lot of inequality and it fell apart?

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#263

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 8:27 AM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #185

WalterBright wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't buy something you think is not worth the money.

Let me more specific. I am talking about wealth that is generated by capturing value from existing assets, transactions, and people rather than by producing new goods, services, or productivity gains. Examples are rent-seeking (making money through ownership, monopoly power, licensing, etc), financial extraction (financial manipulation, speculation, debt, and asset appreciation), housing and land appreciation, middle…

> I don't know how you cannot buy something.

Consider rents. You call that extraction. It is not, as when you rent you exchange money for use of the property. If you've ever been a landlord, you'll find out about how much it costs to make a unit available to rent. There are also high risks associated with it - Mayor Mandami is threatening to confiscate apartment buildings that have a beehive in them. Bad tenants can bankrupt you.

I once tried being a landlord. The tenant cost me more money than he paid. I exited that business. An office tower in Seattle recently was sold for about half what the owner paid for it. Oops. The idea that renting out places is free money and risk free is to not know anything about the business.

Selling people food is not "extracting". It's a fair trade - you farm the food, take it to market, sell it, and the customer eats it. You are not "extracting" from the customer.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#264

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 8:29 AM UTC

deejatsplit wrote: post #118

WalterBright wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> How does creating wealth hurt others I feel a lot of the arguments being made here (one way or the other) are rooted in different ideas of what is needed to make a good society. There is some objective data (e.g. The Spirit Level) which I, personally, find persuasive. But often I think folks just have different ideas of what the ideal state is. For some people, the best society is where everyone is approximately eq…

It sounds like the inequality "problem" is one of envy. And creating a better life for yourself by creating value - that's how life works. Inequality is an incentive to create more.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#265

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 8:30 AM UTC

illiac786 wrote: post #159

WalterBright wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Money is being created. Land and other resources are not, hence they end up being concentrated in the hands of the super rich.

> Land and other resources are not

Actually, they are being created. For example, people create more land in cities by building towers.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#266

Post by polotics » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 8:31 AM UTC

xp84 wrote: post #187

iancmceachern wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But our bridges and infrastructure are crumbling

[flagged]

reference needed

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#267

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 8:39 AM UTC

rickydroll wrote: post #240

WalterBright wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When your part in wealth creation is having your wealth acquired by somebody else. That's called "theft". In a free market, transactions are mutually agreed upon. Equal wealth for equal wealth. > Wealth creation only works when the the money available to buy wealth creating instruments is significantly less than the value of those instruments. Your statement presumes that "value" is some construct independent of th…

> That's called "theft". In a free market, transactions are mutually agreed upon. Equal wealth for equal wealth. It's also called a Transaction with asymmetric information, or being in a position in an economic system where you cannot accumulate assets because the system is stacked against you. I also think you're confusing wealth with value. Wealth is what you have; value is what you have is worth. You may have 50 b…

> Transaction with asymmetric information

Asymmetric information is called "risk", and risk affects what one is willing to pay for it (i.e. its value). Have you ever noticed that "riskier" investments have higher rates of return?

> But it is independent of the market.

Value is entirely based on the market. And yes, it can and does change moment by moment.

> A company's stock is worth all of its assets divided by the number of shares.

No no no. A company's stock is worth what its expected future profits are.

> We should be applying the same logic to valuing stocks and other financial instruments.

That's never going to work.

> You ask for a loan...

You don't get a loan unless you put up collateral. So no wealth is created by the loan. Gawd, now I have to explain how banking works (!!!)

> you have no choice but to ride along with the fund's choices

People are fools to buy into defined benefit pensions.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#268

Post by ndsipa_pomu » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 8:43 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #115

danmaz74 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Creating wealth doesn't hurt others. Removing wealth from most people to put it all in a few people's hands DOES hurt most people though.

> Removing ... Explain the mechanism for that in a free market.

Explain how a free market can function with huge asymmetry in bargaining/purchasing power and access to information, and legislation intended to deter new entrants to markets? Equal access to purchase politicians?

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#269

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 9:00 AM UTC

hparadiz wrote: post #111

maxdo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both companies created in the previous century and running on old fuel of past success

Yea that's why the only three orbital grade reusable boosters are American. Lmao.

[deleted]

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#270

Post by mieses » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 9:13 AM UTC

wesselbindt wrote: post #190

Dibby053 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, because obviously the finish line of the space race was the Moon. Had the Soviets declared the line on the "first woman in space", now we probably would use Soviet GPS, we would use Soviet maps of planet surfaces, we would have Soviet Mars rovers, Soviet Voyager... You get the idea.

> Well, because obviously the finish line of the space race was the Moon. So, this choice is not super obvious to me. If it was called the moon race or whatever, I'd get it. But in this case it just feels like making up rules after the fact to make sure you "win". EDIT: I just realized you might be saying this sarcastically. I'm really bad at picking up on that sort of stuff, and apologize if that's the case.

it got silly when you wrote "first woman"