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It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#261

Post by kreyenborgi »

analogpixel wrote: post #254

- The Framework is more expensive : Kind of care, but not really if it's worth the money. - slower (in most cases) : I care about this. Blender needs to render. - louder (its fan ramps up quite often) : I care about this, it needs to be silent. - has a pretty poor display : I care about this, I don't want poor screen quality, poor color quality, poor text rendering. - but it is a touchscreen: could care less about th…

> the new parts probably won't work in the old machine

Except with framework, where you can actually upgrade it piecewise. The CEO had a video showing of them doing it in like 10 minutes, part by part

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#262

Post by aaa_aaa »

warmwaffles wrote: post #129
LarsDu88 wrote: post #70

What Framework is trying to do feels like something that would've made more sense 10 years ago. And the reason for that is b/c of Moore's Law approaching its end. The way to manufacture more efficient compute now is do things like put DRAM closer to the chip and even closer integration between CPU and GPU. The fact that Apple can co-design their silicon such that the CPU and GPU can pull from the same pooled RAM is a…

> Moore's Law approaching its end. No it isn't. We are going more parallel and the transistor counts will continue to rise.

No, it ended long ago.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#263

Post by Lukas_Skywalker »

hadlock wrote: post #67
throwaway2037 wrote: post #2

This is a brutal (but polite -- classic US Midwestern Geerling 'kill them with kindness'!) side-by-side comparison. My heart goes out to the Framework Computer team. Any team trying to compete in this product space against the surprise from Mac Neo must feel crushed. That said, I am still very optimistic for Framework Computer. It seems like nerds are going wild for them.

Framework is and will always be a statement device. Like modern 4x4 suvs that only haul groceries and may never see dirt roads, the upgradability of a laptop is something few will ever exercise. Most people are buying the idea.

Bought the Framework 13 in March 2022 with 16GB RAM and a 512GB SSD for about $1000. Later, I upgraded RAM and SSD to 32GB/2TB (for about $180), which made it a breeze to run multiple VMs and Docker containers in parallel. Meanwhile, the Macbook M1 Pro I got from work half a year earlier cost more than $2500 for 16GB RAM and a 1TB SSD and crashes when I dare to open Docker or the Android Simulator and keep a browser open for too long. I really like the M1, but it is unusable for my current workloads, and there is no way to adapt it.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#264

Post by analogpixel »

kreyenborgi wrote: post #261
analogpixel wrote: post #254

- The Framework is more expensive : Kind of care, but not really if it's worth the money. - slower (in most cases) : I care about this. Blender needs to render. - louder (its fan ramps up quite often) : I care about this, it needs to be silent. - has a pretty poor display : I care about this, I don't want poor screen quality, poor color quality, poor text rendering. - but it is a touchscreen: could care less about th…

> the new parts probably won't work in the old machine Except with framework, where you can actually upgrade it piecewise. The CEO had a video showing of them doing it in like 10 minutes, part by part

so in 8 years, I'll be able to buy a new CPU and it'll work in that old laptop?

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#265

Post by layer8 »

benoau wrote: post #201
Aurornis wrote: post #18

I love that Framework exists and I hope they succeed. I have been recommending them to friends and family who are looking for Windows or Linux laptops, though with some reservations due to the problems with a couple of their models. However I don't see the value in the Framework 12 over a MacBook Neo if someone isn't choosing by OS first. The $499 MacBook Neo is just so good for the price and so well built. The $499…

It's $599, and they validate students for discounts now so for the vast majority of people $599 is the price. https://www.theverge.com/tech/926675/apple-education-discoun...

The $599 model is also at risk: https://www.theverge.com/gadgets/925997/apple-macbook-neo-pr...

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#266

Post by theodric »

delecti wrote: post #215
866-RON-0-FEZ wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First I heard of this. Apparently it's a meme and Zoomers are huffing their Steam Deck exhaust. Hmm. From the descriptions I've read the smell is similar or identical. Maybe they use the same magic ooze.

Not just Zoomers. I'm nearly 40 and also thought it smelled weirdly good. Though there's a difference between the original LCD and OLED models, with the latter's smell being much weaker and more like generic plastic off-gassing.

Confirmed: Gen1 LCD smelled about the same as the gen2 LCD units, but the OLED version doesn't smell as strong/good. I still huff it. I'm also over 40.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#267

Post by NicuCalcea »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #42
Mashimo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Uncles don’t let relatives buy less than 16gb ram. That has been my standard since ~2010 and our 2013 mbp is still running fine because I insisted on it. Just last weekend I bought 8gb ram thinkpad t14 for an elderly relative. 240 EUR. It replaces his thinkpad x220 where the fan and ssd slowly dies. I doubt it becomes an issue, and if it does then I can upgrade it later.

You can do it once and spend an extra hundred dollars or do it twice, including occasional restrictions to the user. Poor tradeoff imho. This is a young person with a long life ahead, we shouldn’t buy disposable ewaste with a short life.

Someone has to buy that (presumably second-hand) laptop to prevent it from becoming e-waste. 8GB can be plenty for a student, most don't need much beyond a browser and PowerPoint. Many of my university colleagues were using new $5,000+ MacBook Pros exclusively for Google Docs, that seems more wasteful to me.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#268

Post by joseph »

I haven't used the Framework 12, but I got a Framework 13. It really is modular and easy to repair, and they give great instructions and all the tools you need. For example, I dropped mine and bent the screen while carrying it. I ordered a new screen and when it arrived, it took maybe 15 minutes to replace. But the reason I dropped the laptop was because the hinge really sucked. It swings freely. So as I was carrying it, it suddenly swung wide open and threw off my balance.

The caps lock key, which I remapped to control, got a crack in it because I use it a lot. Worst of all, it doesn't stay pressed, depending on its mood. So maybe I'm pressing ctrl-a to get to the beginning of a line and it decides to type the letter a instead.

I really wanted to like it, but alas, the quality was too bad and I won't buy another one.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#269

Post by layer8 »

46493168 wrote: post #228
sgarman wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this totally true? There is advertising, marketing spend and retail shelf space. Surely it's more complex than "solves users problem at price point."

Advertising and marketing spend exist to make people aware of the device's capabilities and its price. I would be surprised to find that any consumer chooses a device because of its marketing spend and retail shelf space.

I’m pretty sure a lot of Apple devices are sold due to the image projected by Apple’s marketing.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#270

Post by theodric »

_hyn3 wrote: post #185
nozzlegear wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this just "Person discovers DRM, c. 2026" dressed up as a complaint about Apple?

Only if you are solely an Apple user, because it's literally not a problem anywhere else. I've taken tons of photos of movies with my Pixels.

My Pixel 8a also blocks screenshots of DRM content. The analog hole remains gaping: pause the movie on your MacBook, and take a picture of the screen with your iPhone.
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