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Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

theguardian.com

261–270 of 528 posts

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#261
post #6

Bring back the Arrow

Something new please. We should be looking forward not pining for what could have been.

The future of air superiority, particularly with respect to sovereign defence is passive or quantum radar, autonomous A2/AD and directed energy.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#262
post #30

I can understand why this change happened. Even if American equipment is superior, there is a lot of value to not depending on a supposed 'ally' which * Arbitrarily slapped high tariffs on all goods from Canada while exempting Russia and Belarus. * Threatened to take over the country by force. * Officially suspended the Permanent Joint Board on Defense between US and Canada because of criticism of US foreign policy b…

aside from political alignment, theres a lot of geographic, budget and climate and stategic alignments that would put swdeen designers in the same headspace.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#263

This is actually more likely a non-political procurement decision that looks like a political one. This is the 'right size' for Canada and other nations - the US doesn't offer a true comparable, and, looks like the US balked at buying the 'kind of comparable' Boeing E7 putting it in jeopardy. With European military renaissance and the SAAB gear proving itself in Ukraine ... well, you see the shift. This is the shift…

In the past countries would buy American equipment even if it wasn’t the best fit because that would make you essentially an American ally. Being part of the U.S. ecosystem was valuable. Unfortunately, over the last 1.5 years, the political value proposition has turned by 180 degrees. - Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. But the U.S. has been tearing ag…

So I don't think 'buying US gear made you an ally' - it was just part of the package, and in some cases, the US would 'require allies' to buy.

The US Ambassador to Canada is openly threatening Carney right now with some procurement things - the 'Big One' is the F35.

This is Can PM Carney playing a decent card, and biding for time until the midterms, and then waiting out the 'lame duck' period.

'Border State Republicans' are badly upset with the anti-Canada situation, and will buck Trump if given the chance without massive repercussions.

Trump may not force the issue if he knows he's going to lose.

If we see Trump with conciliatory language towards Canada after the elections, it's because he knows he's been beat. Or if he just shuts up about it and let's the negotiations roll.

I give it 50/50.

But - to be very clear - the world is 'doing 1 nudge' away from the US - not 'breaking away'.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look around you. What products do you own with a US supply chain and what has a Chinese supply chain.

Guess the people writing on HN here don't have Mac's, iPhones or iPads or use whatever the watches are called.

The supply chain for apple products is almost entirely Chinese. From BOE displays to PCBs and passive. Then assembled in China.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But we seem like the least trustworthy people on earth at the moment. After israel, anyway. Trump has nothing to do with it.

> Trump has nothing to do with it. Genuinely, what makes the US untrustworthy if not Trump? I’m curious what I may be missing.

Remember the guy who promised he'd shut down Guantanamo? Or the guy who made up some weapons so he could invade Irak? Or the guy who ordered Northstream to be blown up?

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#266
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With European military renaissance and the SAAB gear proving itself in Ukraine Btw, we just got this news report here in Sweden: Sweden is giving Gripen jets to Ukraine https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/vr3znL/uppgift-sverige-... Aftonbladet is Sweden's largest daily newspaper. They have a fairly strong track record on government and defense scoops. The supposed announcement is tomorrow morning, local/CEST.

They are not likely 'giving' , Sweden just got $90B in locked up Russian money and those 'freebies' are going to come along with a major purchase order.

Unfortunately the EU still hasn't gotten the balls to confiscate that frozen oligarchy money, so no. Just wait, though. Soon you will cry. ;)

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

As someone unfamiliar with the US-Canada trade relationship, it would be helpful if you developed this argument instead of stating it as a fact. I'm not well-placed to know whether your belief that Canada has bilked the US out of 46 billion dollars is well-founded or not.

It represents the trade deficit the USA has with Canada. To believe that this is a problem as a result of Canada's nefarious actions is to believe that Canada is preventing its citizens from purchasing American product.

Which is a common refrain with respect to our supply management system for dairy; but to believe this you have to ignore that the USA has _never once_ managed to export enough dairy products to Canada to meet or exceed the import quotas set by the supply management regime.

The truth is that Canadians simply don't seem all that interested in purchasing American dairy products.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans were our brothers. We had been partners for over a hundred years.

I like this analogy - sparring with each other like toddlers do, before realizing that they have a lot in common as they age, like the English language, industrialization, the systemic abuse of natives, Big Oil, the World Wars and racism. Now that they're older, they're sparring once again, just like siblings do over the parents' estate.

I like your analogy, and want to add a sad addendum: parental illness and death is frequently the cause of sibling estrangement. Let’s hope this isn’t prolonged.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We call this confirmation bias". I'm genuinely curious to know what you think the author's pre-existing beliefs are. You seem to have a few of your own: "Canada only has to patrol its northern border"

> You seem to have a few of your own: "Canada only has to patrol its northern border" the Canadians do not aggressively patrol the southern border because that is where all of the people are -- unlike the north -- and because the reality is that the entire Canadian military is basically a speedbump for if/when the US invaded in earnest.

Americans: X country is only a speed bump for our awesome military. Also Americans: Have never managed to win a single war on their own while usually fighting underdeveloped tribes whose most advanced equipment is sandals, while at the same time both allies and enemies have a billion jokes on how bad they actually are.

You need a special kind of personality to be this confident while currently losing a war, one that is, well, associated with Americans.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#270
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the absolutely huge one: that the plane it's based around is a Bombardier aircraft manufactured here in Canada. And in general this is how Saab has tried to court us -- by making promises (how real is unclear) to bring manufacturing jobs to Canada to build things. That is something the US has not done, will not do, and most importantly cannot do under Trump/Bissent/etc. Canada is very unlikely to be invade…

> Canada is very unlikely to be invaded Except from the south.

If it’s invaded then a few Swedish panes will really not matter
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