Live data from Hacker News

Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

businessinsider.com

261–270 of 360 posts

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#261
post #160
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They get paid for saying whatever VCs want to hear and now that thing is "we have now become an AI-native company". The thing I'm still trying to understand is who is scamming whom

Uber is publicly traded. They're not beholden to VCs any more.

I don't believe the comments I replied to were specific to Uber.

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would prefer to search for new usages in a more strategic way I think this is very, very hard for orgs to do. Looking back at the Internet, who would have thought that it would eventually create a Netflix, Amazon, Shopify, Spotify, Google Maps, etc. Just wild the things that ended up coming out of pushing bits over a wire with few simple protocols. In an ideal world, you make strategic bets, but I can also see th…

People talked about streaming years before Netflix. Online maps apps date back to the 1990s. E-commerce as well. I definitely get the impression that many people thought it would eventually create shopping, streaming, and mapping sites. I think people were less likely to have predicted things like social media or YouTube, though those weren't ideas sprung from a vacuum either.

If it were that simple and obvious, Blockbuster would have beat everyone to streaming. Sears would have digitized their catalog and used their vast brick-and-mortar stores as fulfillment centers for same-day shipping.

None of these shifts were obviously the right bet and many organizations lost because they missed the opportunity. Now orgs are on the same horizon and I can see why they don't want to miss this window.

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The web took off all by itself because it had a clear value proposition for some use cases. Many enterprises became legacy because of the web, many enterprises failed because they didn't understand the impact of the tech. Sears was the OG Amazon. Imagine if Sears had seen it as the new digital catalog. Blockbuster missed on streaming until it was too late. Many, many legacy companies did not understand the web and…

And you think forcing blockbuster's software teams to use the Web would have changed that? You don't think they were using the web for all their corporate communications systems? I very much think they were, and getting blindsided by streaming had probably nothing to do with blockbuster's existing engineering teams not understanding the Internet. Their product teams didn't understand it, but they wouldn't be the ones…

    > And you think forcing blockbuster's software teams to use the Web would have changed that?
Yes; non-zero chance that had they been more aggressive in pushing the web, someone would have landed on the right answer.

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP (solenoid0937) is an unfounded AI-hype peddler and an Anthropic shill (check their comment history), do not expect them to provide an actual example of their wild claims.

I checked their history and they seem alright ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Here, just a few examples over the last 9 days, in no particular order of exaggeration magnitude:

Unsubstantiated claims of 3x-10x productivity at allegedly a FAANG: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48174666

More claims of the same, still unsubstantiated: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48173995

Even more claims of the same, still nothing of substance: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48173975

Outlandish claim of using 300$ in tokens in 1 hour at allegedly a FAANG: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48158438

Ostensibly great things with unlimited tokens at allegedly a FAANG: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48269185

Complaints about HN "not getting" AI: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48245673

An attempt to validate vibe-coding in production: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48243651

Whitewashing Claude degradation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48211638

More Claude degradation whitewashing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48245784

Whitewashing Anthropic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48199951

Promises of coming AI revolution: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48188104

All of this serves to hype up the LLM technology with absolutely outlandish claims, while also propping up Anthropic online.

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Join one!

Anything more concrete?

You got baited by an LLM-hype peddler and Anthropic shill, do not expect anything of substance. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48272695

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the codebase is custom integrations for local markets. You can systematize some of it but most of the complexity comes from there.

Can you provide an example? What is different about running Uber services in Chicago vs. Indianapolis?

There’s been a bug when ordering an Uber in my (quite small, circa 20k pop) town recently in that they think our annual festival (which is in July) is on now and try to force a stupid pickup point which in my case is about the same distance from my local pub as my house is but in the opposite direction. I guess things like this need some sort of maintenance (which apparently they’re not getting!).

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#267
I find it shocking that anyone ever thought tokenmaxxing was a good idea.

AI maximalists like to compare the technology to electricity. Imagine if in the early days of electrification, a CEO had rewarded staff for increasing the amount of electricity they consumed rather than finding ways to use it for business impact. Institutionalizing people who showed signs of mental illness was popular in those days, and I suspect that would have been the outcome.

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#268
post #29

What if... we stop for a moment, and then, after thinking for a moment, we stop hammering nails with a microscope, and stop using token usage as a metric of productivity? I know it's sounds stupid, but what if

> ... stop using token usage as a metric of productivity?

and tokenmaxxing is even worse due to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law because whatever you measure with tokens, once you start "tokenmaxxing" you have no measure to look at

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#269

Why do keep doing this? It's the same as measuring by LoC, we know it's not gonna work. Also, see Goodhart's Law[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law

hah came here to say exactly this

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#270

I find it useful that if they cut the use altogether I will pay for it out of pocket.

Would you decide its usefulness based on how high the bill is, or how many things you get done while using it? The former is the issue, and how many companies have been operating. It's like a trucking company ranking driver effectiveness by fuel used instead of by cargo moved.

The former. I’m able to get more Tickets done with it than without.
Post reply on HN