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Spotify will start reserving concert tickets for fans

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Re: Spotify will start reserving concert tickets for fans

#261

Post by lopis »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #252
ssl-3 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-transferable tickets suck for their own reasons. Someone in a group gets sick or otherwise can't make it? Their seat is now either empty, or their ticket goes back to the pool. They can't give that ticket to someone else. That's a big deal for a whole slew of reasons. Let's pick just one reason and run with it. Five 11-year-old-ish girls want to go see Olivia Rodrigo. These kids haven't ever even been inside an a…

The UK is proposing a law that will make it illegal to resell a ticket for greater than the face value. That honestly seems like a very pragmatic solution to me.

So the scalpers will move to the black market and consumers will lose all existing protections? Nice!

Re: Spotify will start reserving concert tickets for fans

#262

Post by hunter2_ »

theptip wrote: post #254
etrautmann wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does resale help the artist? By inflating expectations for ticket prices for the next show?

If the artist sells them directly at the market price set by the resale auction, they get more than if they sell at face value.

The question was about actual resale (although I'm beginning to wonder); you're talking about something for which I don't believe the word "resale" is accurate.

Re: Spotify will start reserving concert tickets for fans

#263

Post by onion2k »

ssl-3 wrote: post #258
LeoPanthera wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is proposing a law that will make it illegal to resell a ticket for greater than the face value. That honestly seems like a very pragmatic solution to me.

"Great news, gentlemen! We've made [drugs/gambling/guns/scalping] illegal! That problem is solved!"

Perfect is the enemy of good. If a law can end the easier parts of the problem then the overwhelming majority of the issues go away.

For example, the UK banned the private ownership of 'short guns' in 1997 and there hasn't been a mass shooting since. The second order effect of that was an increase in knife crime, but that's OK (in the sense that it's another problem to deal with). Trading fighting gun crime for fighting knife crime is a huge win if it removes a problem like random mass shootings.

In this case, removing all of the incentives for legal ticket scalping at source would mean people can mostly benefit from access to tickets. The second order effects are likely to be an increase in ticket prices because now people with more money will be willing to pay more at source, and an increase in 'sniping' services that automate buying as fast as possible. Those are acceptable downsides if it removes people from the market who only skim profits by scalping and offer no useful additions.

Re: Spotify will start reserving concert tickets for fans

#264

Post by hunter2_ »

ssl-3 wrote: post #236
seandoe wrote: post #227

It seems like a step in the right direction to combat scalpers. I've wondered though... Why not have a non-transferrable ticket system? If you can't go then you return your tickets to the pool and if they sell you get your money back.

Non-transferable tickets suck for their own reasons. Someone in a group gets sick or otherwise can't make it? Their seat is now either empty, or their ticket goes back to the pool. They can't give that ticket to someone else. That's a big deal for a whole slew of reasons. Let's pick just one reason and run with it. Five 11-year-old-ish girls want to go see Olivia Rodrigo. These kids haven't ever even been inside an a…

An actual transfer is needed when selling to someone you don't know/trust. But for the moms in your example, handing over the ticket just means temporarily handing over the account: share the password (assuming no password reuse habits), send over the MFA OTP, whatever it takes.

It's not ideal, but it avoids the scalping that comes from more streamlined transfers; scalpers can't easily sell burner accounts if account creation needs a non-VoIP phone number or similar.

Re: Spotify will start reserving concert tickets for fans

#266

Post by thaumasiotes »

pimlottc wrote: post #208
orangecat wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people like going to live music and theatre events and scalpers make it more difficult and more expensive for them Scalpers make it possible to get a ticket at market price, instead of maybe being able to get it for less and maybe not being able to get it at any price. It's not at all clear that the latter is better.

Scalpers are the primary reason it’s practically impossible to get a ticket at face price in the first place

The only way that could possibly be true is if the price the scalpers charged was the face price they had to pay.

In that world, there wouldn't be scalpers.

Re: Spotify will start reserving concert tickets for fans

#267

Post by well_ackshually »

ssl-3 wrote: post #236
seandoe wrote: post #227

It seems like a step in the right direction to combat scalpers. I've wondered though... Why not have a non-transferrable ticket system? If you can't go then you return your tickets to the pool and if they sell you get your money back.

Non-transferable tickets suck for their own reasons. Someone in a group gets sick or otherwise can't make it? Their seat is now either empty, or their ticket goes back to the pool. They can't give that ticket to someone else. That's a big deal for a whole slew of reasons. Let's pick just one reason and run with it. Five 11-year-old-ish girls want to go see Olivia Rodrigo. These kids haven't ever even been inside an a…

Tough fucking luck. I missed out on Alive 2007 because I was too young, on Lady Gaga because my partner got sick and we had to resell the tickets (at the exact same price we bought them for. And someone else bought them for that exact same price). Will I ever see Muse? Fuck if I know.

> The end result of this is stupid: "Sorry, kids. None of you get to go to the concert that you already have a ticket for. Life is hard."

Life is hard and they missed Olivia Rodrigo. The kids will survive through it, I promise. It's life, they'll see another concert. Most children in the world do not go to see concerts at 11 either.

Re: Spotify will start reserving concert tickets for fans

#268

Post by thaumasiotes »

carlosjobim wrote: post #84
UntitledNo4 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently bought tickets to a concert in France (I live in Germany) and ended up not being able to travel and had to resell my tickets. Apparently according to French law you are not allowed to resell a ticket above its face value and so I had to resell it through the same ticketing company I bought it. They allowed me to set a price with up to a maximum amount which was less than how much I bought it (by a Euro or…

It's trivially easy for scalpers to game that system.

Of course, but not by "hanging out outside the venue selling tickets".

So if not seeing them there means the problem is solved, this problem is in fact easy to solve.

Re: Spotify will start reserving concert tickets for fans

#269

Post by ssl-3 »

hunter2_ wrote: post #264
ssl-3 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-transferable tickets suck for their own reasons. Someone in a group gets sick or otherwise can't make it? Their seat is now either empty, or their ticket goes back to the pool. They can't give that ticket to someone else. That's a big deal for a whole slew of reasons. Let's pick just one reason and run with it. Five 11-year-old-ish girls want to go see Olivia Rodrigo. These kids haven't ever even been inside an a…

An actual transfer is needed when selling to someone you don't know/trust. But for the moms in your example, handing over the ticket just means temporarily handing over the account: share the password (assuming no password reuse habits), send over the MFA OTP, whatever it takes. It's not ideal, but it avoids the scalping that comes from more streamlined transfers; scalpers can't easily sell burner accounts if account…

That doesn't work, either. We can't assume that mom-passwords aren't being reused. We can't assume that mom-phones are secure. We can't assume that the requisite moms are even aware of the same kinds of things that we here on HN are aware of.

We can't assume anything, except this promotes a new friction.

But even then: So we're letting anyone in with a valid ticket-holding account on a pocket supercomputer, without verifying that they are who they say they are?

Great! This means that the scalpers have moved on from just selling tickets, and pivot over to selling entire ticket-holding accounts.

(This is just more theatrical burden.)

Re: Spotify will start reserving concert tickets for fans

#270

Post by ssl-3 »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #260
ssl-3 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Great news, gentlemen! We've made [drugs/gambling/guns/scalping] illegal! That problem is solved!"

This seems unnecessarily cynical.

It may be the case that your perspective differs from my own. I've gambled, and bought drugs, and done all kinds of other illegal things in my life.

I knew that it was illegal. I did it anyway.

I haven't bought or sold any illegally-overpriced concert tickets yet, but I'm not yet done living my life, either.

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