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Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

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Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#261

Post by binary132 »

dbcurtis wrote: post #42
binary132 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same thought, but those cockpit modules are really designed to maximize the odds of safe ejection, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they consider the possibility of failure and escape as part of the stunt design. Still, it’s amazing everything worked out, especially at that low of an altitude.

Do we know if the pilots are OK? Yes, ejection can save your life, but even in a best-case scenario the forces on the human body are incredibly ugly. I know a former combat-rated RAF pilot that had to eject from a Harrier because of a low-altitude bird strike. After 6 months in the infirmary, he emerged 2cm shorter, combat rating gone forever.

I mean, there’s “OK”, and then there’s “not in that flaming heap of exploding shrapnel” OK, so I guess it’s on a spectrum. But I guess they’re “OK-ish”, based on the fact that the seats seemingly cleared the wreck and the parachutes deployed. But yeah, I guess someone definitely could have gotten injured or worse in the tangle. I would imagine that would probably have also resulted in visible damage to the ejection module, though.

Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#262

Post by oliwarner »

mschuster91 wrote: post #227
oliwarner wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The waste is a byproduct of a many-layered insurance system forced between patient and provider. Everyone in the chain wants their pound of flesh. That problem will exist until the government provides a managed alternative and takes corporate profit out of healthcare. And that all comes down to the appetite for social spending. It's patriotic to funnel $tn to arms suppliers but only a Commie would want health, dental…

> This money was available to blow stuff up, kill kids in another country. Why not spending something similar to improve the US domestically. Because there is already more than enough money in the US healthcare system. Just shoving in more money will not help anybody at all.

I think we're possibly saying the same thing in different ways but the only way you take the money going to insurance companies and debt collectors is by providing a service that doesn't rely on them.

Getting there is the hurdle. Forcibly nationalise insurers and their hospital networks? Price capping all the things? Doesn't sound very American.

That leaves competition. To fund that, you need tax revenue. Eventually people will pay that tax instead of insurance but it's infrastructure, so it's front-loaded.

Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#263

Post by mlyle »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #250
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never got to do aerobatics, just “normal” flying. I saw a RedBull race and was impressed about the agility of the pilots. But I like jets more because they go faster. And they have afterburners. And they go vertical faster than any propeller plane will ever be able to. And the margin of error is smaller. Espcially closer to the ground.

Jets are faster and louder for sure . The margins, that completely depends on the pilot and act design. You can make margins arbitrarily small at any speed :). (As an imperfect example - a world rally car going through a 80kph blind corner over a crest on snow between the trees is not necessarily more of a margin / less of skill or spectacle than F1 taking a tarmac open corner at 200kph:)

> (As an imperfect example - a world rally car going through a 80kph blind corner over a crest on snow between the trees is not necessarily more of a margin / less of skill or spectacle than F1 taking a tarmac open corner at 200kph:)

I think it's interesting how as humans we tend to sort into valuing one of these much more than the other, though.

I like the rally car and the aerobatic piston plane a lot.

I want to like F1 and the fast jets more... but after being initially blown away I get bored pretty quick. I think what they're doing is incredibly cool and I can appreciate it but...

But the dude upthread is the exact opposite.

[I do think you need to be more of a "car guy" to like rally and more of a "plane guy" to like what the little planes do. The stuff that is big and loud and fast is easier to appreciate. But I know plenty of people who really know their stuff that still prefer the big and loud and fast].

Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#264

Post by alistairSH »

tintor wrote: post #259
alistairSH wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, that's not correct. The back-seat in the Growler is an Electronics Warfare Officer. He may be monitoring the radio, but he's not just a second pilot (as is the case with commercial passenger aviation); it's a completely distinct job with a distinct training program. And of course, most modern fighter jets are actually single seat. And they operate just fine that way.

What does Electronics Warfare Officer in the plane do, at the air show?

Ballast.

Only half kidding. They fly with a pilot and an EWO, that's procedure. Not much more to it.

Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#265

Post by ExoticPearTree »

mlyle wrote: post #263
NikolaNovak wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jets are faster and louder for sure . The margins, that completely depends on the pilot and act design. You can make margins arbitrarily small at any speed :). (As an imperfect example - a world rally car going through a 80kph blind corner over a crest on snow between the trees is not necessarily more of a margin / less of skill or spectacle than F1 taking a tarmac open corner at 200kph:)

> (As an imperfect example - a world rally car going through a 80kph blind corner over a crest on snow between the trees is not necessarily more of a margin / less of skill or spectacle than F1 taking a tarmac open corner at 200kph:) I think it's interesting how as humans we tend to sort into valuing one of these much more than the other, though. I like the rally car and the aerobatic piston plane a lot. I want to li…

I used to like F1, in the Ayrton Senna days. Nowadays with all the rules, they took all the fun out of F1.

Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#266

Post by bigyabai »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #159
mlyle wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yah.. the roaring sound and precision of military aerial display teams can't be denied, and are an awesome experience. But it's something you see someone doing in a Pitts or Extra or maybe even a Citabria or 150 that makes you question your understanding of the laws of physics :D

It is not the same. Having a jet do a low pass is something that you will remember for a long time. Or having it go vertical with full after burners, especially close to sunset where you can see it better. The other factor is showing how good you are: sure, you can do formation flying in an Extra 300 or a C150, but doing it in a fighter jet show precission and skill, because it will not forgive you as easy as a slowe…

I'm surprised to see people say this. There are prop plane maneuvers that make the jet maneuvers look like chopped liver: https://youtu.be/Fue96WsySn0

Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#267

Post by umbra07 »

bigyabai wrote: post #49
rootusrootus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many comments are trying to overanalyze, or just show off their insightful cynicism. We do airshows because they are cool . Lots of us love airplanes. Humans do all kinds of activities for entertainment that are not strictly justifiable returns on investment. I hope we never get that boring, though every year we do seem to go that direction.

It's worth questioning what the costs are, though. I love military aviation more than the average Joe, and seeing these jets pushed to their limits is pretty gratifying. But this isn't a football/soccer pasttime, the E/A-18 is an expensive F/A-18 block and the aviators are an asset of national security that take decades of experience and millions of taxpayer dollars to train. The losses sustained by the Blue Angels a…

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Angels#Team_accidents_and...

20 pilot deaths since 1946 (80 years ago), but only 2 pilot deaths since 2000 (25 years ago).

I wouldn't really call that "stomach-churning losses"?

Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#268

Post by much-to-learn »

infecto wrote: post #256
gibspaulding wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admit the comment you’re responding to was low effort, but I don’t think the existence of cons in one’s own culture invalidates criticizing cons to some other culture. Problems don’t go away if everyone ignores them. Also “every culture has pros/cons” may be true, but it’s absolutely not true that the ratio of pros/cons is the same for every culture.

I don’t think you should ignore them but two jets that collide at an air show has very little to do with the state of healthcare in America. As an American I completely dislike the state of the healthcare system but I also get tired of the cheap shot comments like this.

I think they absolutely are more connected than you think. So many problems in our current society are because everything is treated as being in its own vacuum.

As an American, I’m tired of comments like yours. I’m not sure you understand what a cheap shot is. America isn’t on the ground while others are standing over them, kicking them. If anything, America is acting as if its limbs are all completely different organisms. The arm shooting the leg is certainly the leg’s problem, not the arm’s. /s

if you can’t hear anything negative about America without making a fuss, maybe you should listen to the feedback and fix it?

Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#269

Post by infecto »

much-to-learn wrote: post #268
infecto wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you should ignore them but two jets that collide at an air show has very little to do with the state of healthcare in America. As an American I completely dislike the state of the healthcare system but I also get tired of the cheap shot comments like this.

I think they absolutely are more connected than you think. So many problems in our current society are because everything is treated as being in its own vacuum. As an American, I’m tired of comments like yours. I’m not sure you understand what a cheap shot is. America isn’t on the ground while others are standing over them, kicking them. If anything, America is acting as if its limbs are all completely different orga…

[flagged]

Re: Two EA-18 fighter jets collide at Mountain Home airshow, pilots ejected safely

#270

Post by Waterluvian »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #252
rob74 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that plane is the Lockheed Starfighter ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-104_Starfighter#Eje... ). Fortunately they were eventually replaced with upward-firing ejection seats. And the "lawn dart" moniker refers to the airplane itself - probably because of the absurdly short wings, which are also placed pretty far back.

"We need a plane for bombing, straffing, assault and battery, interception, ground support and reconnaissance. Not just a *fair weather fighter*!" RIP Bob Calvert.

Putting on my Internet Guy hat: isn’t that the A-10?
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