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Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#261

Post by giancarlostoro »

cnewey wrote: post #137
MajorTakeaway wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They never went away, just from your mind. Look at cheap xfinity wifi hotspots everywhere that still steal your credentials in the form of phone number and email address. The bar I went to last night has a free wifi hotspot like every establishment ever. Misinformation smells like your own farts, disgusting to everyone but you.

But unfortunately, a VPN won't protect you from captive portals. So not entirely sure what your comment adds to the discussion other than being unnecessarily rude. For other readers who may be too young to remember, improper privacy controls (unenforced HTTPS, poor encryption in the form of WEP, easy MitM attacks, etc) meant that public/untrusted WiFi was a legitimate security risk as things like passwords, bank deta…

Yeah the being asked for an email or phone for free wifi option is completely different from the “I can MITM all your web requests” which is what needs a VPN.

I usually give a fake email or phone number to get free wifi anyway.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#262

Post by charcircuit »

cnewey wrote: post #137
MajorTakeaway wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They never went away, just from your mind. Look at cheap xfinity wifi hotspots everywhere that still steal your credentials in the form of phone number and email address. The bar I went to last night has a free wifi hotspot like every establishment ever. Misinformation smells like your own farts, disgusting to everyone but you.

But unfortunately, a VPN won't protect you from captive portals. So not entirely sure what your comment adds to the discussion other than being unnecessarily rude. For other readers who may be too young to remember, improper privacy controls (unenforced HTTPS, poor encryption in the form of WEP, easy MitM attacks, etc) meant that public/untrusted WiFi was a legitimate security risk as things like passwords, bank deta…

If the captive portal for an open network uses HTTP, then anyone nearby can see the information you submit.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#263

Post by therealpygon »

coldtea wrote: post #156
therealpygon wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just my opinion but… I’m all for helping people in the situations that aren’t of their own creation, so using the excuse “what are they supposed to do” doesn’t really fit for me? The first option is to use a condom if they are in a bad financial situation. It’s been amazing how every time I’ve used one, I haven’t had a child. When did we stop making people responsible for their choices? I’m not against assistance, I’…

> The first option is to use a condom if they are in a bad financial situation. It’s been amazing how every time I’ve used one, I haven’t had a child. That's what they've been doing in unprecedented numbers. Which via demographic collapse is going to cause an even worse crisis, economic, social, political, and more, further down the line.

Good. If people can’t afford their own livelihood, then they probably shouldn’t have them. If they can and choose not to, arguments could be made about why someone would rather they make a different decision. But if “we need poor children in a welfare system or I can’t live my comfortable life” is what someone would think is the answer, there is something desperately wrong with the people who would think it.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#264

Post by HerbManic »

SwtCyber wrote: post #228
juleiie wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1984 is extremely naive. It assumes that people will fight for their freedom and insane measures will be needed to keep them in check. So foolishly optimistic… people can’t wait to give freedom away if only they get a stable job and housing in exchange. Or if it hits these other guys they don’t like at the moment. It’s all much, much less dramatic than Orwell. It is an ordinary, everyday erosion of your rights until…

Most people probably don't "give away freedom" in some explicit bargain. They accept one small exception at a time: this restriction is for children, this one is for safety, this one is only for bad actors, this one is temporary

Back 2001-ish there was an uproar about how Windows XP would profile your system and upload this to Microsoft. This was done to ensure that it got the right security update (32/64bit - home/enterprise). That was the only thing it did.

Now 25 years later, they know who you are talking too, what you are talking about, where you are almost in real time, what websites you browse, books you read, music you like, podcasts you indulge in, what social media trends you follow, general political points of view, sexual orientation, what you look like and so on... It was all taken one little inch at a time and now we have mass apathy about it all.

And once they have taken that little bit, they will never let it go by choice.

Here in Australia, there are now ID proof of age requirements for Social media (still a little loosely enforced)and pornography. They have their foot in the door, you can see where it is going next.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#265

Post by tim333 »

MajorTakeaway wrote: post #117
miki123211 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And most people don't even need them any more. The days of free WiFi hotspots being able to easily steal your credentials are long gone.

They never went away, just from your mind. Look at cheap xfinity wifi hotspots everywhere that still steal your credentials in the form of phone number and email address. The bar I went to last night has a free wifi hotspot like every establishment ever. Misinformation smells like your own farts, disgusting to everyone but you.

The hotspots themselves may be iffy but almost everything uses https these days.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#266

Post by zimpenfish »

philipallstar wrote: post #180
zimpenfish wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do - https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/child-protection-system - but, at least in England, as with most governmental functions, it's been slashed to near death by years of austerity and "small government" lunacy.

It's not lunacy. It's the parents' child, not the state's.

> It's the parents' child, not the state's.

And who should look out for the child's interests if the parents can't or won't?

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#267

Post by HerbManic »

aniviacat wrote: post #52
IshKebab wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Times would be tough if we could only express thoughts noone thought before.

The internet would be a very quiet place and the publishing industry would go mostly broke if we had that requirement.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#268

Post by jonhohle »

philipallstar wrote: post #256
jonhohle wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are obviously not a parent. I lock down devices, lock down my network, then the public school gives my kid a laptop with access to nearly everything I’ve tried to filter. Even if I can successfully monitor it at home, the device is in their possession and out of my control as a parent for 6-8 hours a day. The government is literally bypassing our family rules and my ability to protect my children in the way I see…

I don't know why you think I'm not a parent. What did I say that made you think that?

> they just need to watch what their kids use devices for, and keep the devices in public areas of the house

How do you monitor what a child is using a device for when you don’t have access to the device and they’re at a school that doesn’t care? What device is safe to use, even when in a public area? You’re able to see the screen of all devices I your house at all times? You’re awake at all hours monitoring public areas of the house? Would you think an elementary schooler could get into trouble with an eink Kindle? With an Xbox (beyond gaming to long)? With a school issued Chromebook? What happens when Screen Time fails and the whitelist of allowed sites and limits on time no longer work (as happens several times a year)? What happens when the locked down Chromebook allows arbitrary web access through a log in screen buried deep in help that all the kids know about and despite layers and layers of controls out in place the school device happily ignores them all and lets children do whatever they want?

The idea that a child can be given a device and that they could be monitored 24/7 suggests you don’t have kids, they don’t have any technology in their life, you don’t know what they and/or their friends are actually doing, or you only have children like my daughter. I suppose if everyone was like her I’d be naive to what most kids are doing as well.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#270

Post by jonhohle »

feelamee wrote: post #238
jonhohle wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, that’s not how addiction works. It’s hard to punish addiction out of anyone. Different kids have different nature and nurture, and for some kids, consequences don’t matter. I would have judged parent’s in this situation before becoming one. It’s humbling and builds empathy. What do you do when punishment doesn’t work? When therapy doesn’t work? When strict control doesn’t work? When there is no remorse…

ok, probably age verification and strict access control from the state solve your problem.. for some time. But what will you do when this one will grow? There will be no restrictions - not from you, not from the state. Does restriction really solved the root problem?

Honestly, I don’t know. My hope is that as executive function matures, logic and consequences become more apparent in decision making. Children haven’t developed that yet. I completely get that in a few years, the training wheels are off and the floodgate is open. I’ve had family members, before internet was what it has become, that had similar problem, albeit in different areas. By their mid-20s they had figured things out, but lost several years.

What I do know is that we have an epidemic of mental illness affecting children and adults are crying about how it affects them. Privacy is important. Protecting children it’s important. Let’s have both.

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