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Ghostty is leaving GitHub

mitchellh.com

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Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#261

Post by shimman »

colechristensen wrote: post #151
featherless wrote: post #117

I migrated my entire workflow onto a personal GitLab instance after the whole "pay a fee to bring your own bags to the grocery store" GitHub Actions pricing shenanigans earlier this year. Best decision ever. 100% uptime. 100% less stress with each of the product/pricing changes over the past few months. Was also able to build my own GitHub Copilot equivalent that auto-reviews MRs interactively. Highly recommend it.

Is GitLab pretty good these days? I remember quite a few years ago it having its own set of problems.

Yeah, if you're hosting your own just use forgejo. Forgejo has a better governance model and is actually open source, not a corporate project that happens to advertise in open source. The distinction is meaningful.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#262

Post by infogulch »

I'm happy that raw git + mailing lists works great for the linux project, but can the rest of us all agree we actually do need issues & PRs? And that it's super painful to lose all this context when platform hopping, or when the service unilaterally decides to deplatform someone?

So where are we going? Mitchell will be deciding for Ghostty. If github's current trajectory is anything to go by, everyone else will need to decide where to go sooner rather than later.

I'm worried that it will be a Babel scattering event and this open source superpower that github catalyzed (how to describe it?) will just evaporate.

I'm also worried that wherever we go next could have the same fate as github.

So what then? Radicle is the only thing that I've seen that could theoretically 'solve' the problem, though it still needs a lot of work: https://radicle.dev/

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#263

Post by vhodges »

rapind wrote: post #181
devin wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone reading this is curious of their own, you can go to https://api.github.com/users/YOUR_USERNAME_HERE and fetch it. My ID is just over 10,000. Crazy to think of the journey that I've had in computing since I signed up for GitHub.

1,202 if we're bragging. TBH I'm not super invested in github. I pay for it (smallest plan) and use it as a repository and for forking other projects occasionally, and for hosting some small-time static sites. I've never really needed any of it's other features. Every time I go to github.com there's more and more cruft though, which to me means that I'm not their target customer and they will inevitably either aliena…

I am 22095 on GH but 213 on Sourceforge :-D I have a 5 digit user id on Slashdot as well (~20k mark if I recall).

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#264

Post by ahartmetz »

frevib wrote: post #189
BizarroLand wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my darkly optimistic take on enshittification: Companies know how to make good product, but if they don't have "new and shiny" to impress us anymore, then their only alternative is to make things worse so they can heel turn and then make things "better" by unmaking all of the worse things they did. They can also milk their customers coming and going in the process. It's not "enshittify or lose", its just raw…

> It's not "enshittify or lose" I think it’s “find natural monopoly and reduce costs (aka enshittify)”. Github is a natural monopoly and users cannot go anywhere. Unless you’re famous like Mitchell Hashimoto.

Depends on how strong a moat really is, but it can be "enshittify and lose", too. Enlightened (as opposed to short-term) self-interest may pay off after two years or twenty, depending, and in the latter case, it may as well not pay off at all as far as a public company are concerned.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#265

Post by idan »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #205
idan wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi there! Longtime fan and hubber here. It's okay to have emotions. I have similar emotions. I'm GitHub User 22723 which is effectively the same as you (considering there's ~180m GH accounts nowadays) My version of your post reads differently: "GitHub only gets better if people who give a shit stick around to make it better" Walking away would be easy. I felt that way when I left Heroku ~six years ago. I left that jo…

I used to think people who said Github had become very unreliable were exagerating, but I can't miss it now. If you want to keep people, you have to actually go down less. It's interesting that internally you had a very different experience with Salesforce buying Heroku and Microsoft buying Github. From the outside it appears to be analagous (except github is degrading quicker than Heroku did?)

Salesforce never understood Heroku. Salesforce's understanding of Heroku, if such an understanding ever existed, was wildly different than what Heroku understood it wanted to be. Benioff's penchant for buying himself a company every year did not help — "no headcount this year, we're buying Mulesoft/Quip/Tableau/Slack/$WHATEVER. And oops we spent too much money on dreamforce. Sucks that your pager rotations are burning people out!" It was very clear they did not give a shit about us, as evidenced by resources.

It's safe to say that I'm hypersensitive to these antipatterns and have been looking out for them at GitHub, and I don't see them.

What Microsoft wants GitHub to be is pretty much what GitHub wants GitHub to be. A home for all developers, playing a central role in the production of both public and private software. That alignment was never there with Heroku/Salesforce.

GitHub is not perfect but I don't think it's "degraded faster" at all. It's _grown_ faster. Much much much faster. And it's had to expand into the AI field, which is not an incremental thing like "hey let's launch a new feature or better dashboards." Nobody knows what AI wants to be when it grows up. GitHub in 2026 fundamentally resembles a pre-PMF startup in many ways because of that. I'm obviously not an unbiased observer, but I wouldn't count us out just because it's an uphill. Everyone's on that same uphill.

Having experienced both firsthand, I fundamentally disagree that there's a parallel. GitHub/MSFT has the median amount of corporate bullshit. Not more, not less.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#266

Post by cyberpunk »

colechristensen wrote: post #151
featherless wrote: post #117

I migrated my entire workflow onto a personal GitLab instance after the whole "pay a fee to bring your own bags to the grocery store" GitHub Actions pricing shenanigans earlier this year. Best decision ever. 100% uptime. 100% less stress with each of the product/pricing changes over the past few months. Was also able to build my own GitHub Copilot equivalent that auto-reviews MRs interactively. Highly recommend it.

Is GitLab pretty good these days? I remember quite a few years ago it having its own set of problems.

forgejo has been great for us. It scales remarkably far with the built in sqlite db also. Single binary, no deps. You ofc have the option to hook it up to a proper database server.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#267

Post by _doctor_love »

bsimpson wrote: post #231
_doctor_love wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> insider perspective on this I do not work at MSFT but I don't feel that I need insider perspective to understand what's going on. GitHub is being managed the way other services get managed once they're bought by big companies. Initially fine, then starts to decline, then eventually craters. Everything becomes the numbers game. Microsoft, Oracle, VMware, CA (where software goes to die), Salesforce, the list goes on.…

I feel like MS went out of its way to make a point that GitHub and NPM would be independent orgs that no longer had to worry about making keep-the-lights-on money. It was positioned as a benevolent acquisition for the good of the development community. As so often happens, that didn't last long. Nest was originally independent. Didn't take long for it to merge with the Google Home brand. I'm sure there are countless…

> would be independent orgs that no longer had to worry about making keep-the-lights-on money

It is honestly so shameful that we keep falling for this gambit. It is nothing more than a rank "but this time is different!"

Economics is what drives things. It is what drives things in households and it is what drives things in companies.

Unless times are truly great or the company is truly forward-looking, promises of freedom and independence from the business cycle is just an empty promise of creating a research lab.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#268

Post by cyberpunk »

chrisweekly wrote: post #207

Luke Wroblewski posted this earlier today: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/lukew_small-taste-of-the-inco... The shape of the curve helps make it a little easier to understand why availability has been so abysmal.

There's no Y axis. It doesn't mean anything. There could be a 10% difference since 2023 for all we know.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#269

Post by queenkjuul »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #200
SoKamil wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? React has nothing to do with current state of affairs. In fact, React on GitHub currently exists in mere islands, i.e. in Projects and recently in Pull Requests. Most of the frontend is still Web Components[1] paired with Turbo[2] for hot reloading. GitHub is still as slow even with JavaScript disabled, try it yourself. Backend just serves stuff really slow. In fact, there is an alternative GitHub frontend (no…

Pull Requests is the thing that was wacky in the UI yesterday, coincidence or not? I have no idea. Yesterday we saw PR pages that displayed no error, just displayed wrong info. I would have preferred to get an error page than outdated or empty lists. I was guessing this was related to the React migration but I don't really know.

I think the backend is just fucked. I have issues with Actions and the API all the time, not just the web UI

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#270

Post by idan »

brailsafe wrote: post #228
idan wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi there! Longtime fan and hubber here. It's okay to have emotions. I have similar emotions. I'm GitHub User 22723 which is effectively the same as you (considering there's ~180m GH accounts nowadays) My version of your post reads differently: "GitHub only gets better if people who give a shit stick around to make it better" Walking away would be easy. I felt that way when I left Heroku ~six years ago. I left that jo…

Fyi your HN description still says Heroku

derp, haven't touched that in a while. TY!
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