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Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

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Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#261

Post by Ferret7446 »

happymellon wrote: post #246
throwawa14223 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get all of what’s going on but from the outside it seems like the xLibre guys got a lot of negative attention for doing that.

If you don't know what's going on, why comment? A guy decided that after getting all his patches rejected because they cause tests to fail, doesn't compile, etc. that the problem is everyone else and decided to fork XOrg. He then announced that the problem wasn't his code that didn't compile but DEI so based the entire forking around being a political conservative. Everything I've seen written by him shows him to be…

There are a lot of distros that have xlibre packages for something that ostensibly doesn't compile.

I wouldn't trust the reason given by the people who have said that they're trying to kill Xorg for why they're rejecting patches from someone trying to improve Xorg

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#262

Post by ploxiln »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #184
palata wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, my experience with Wayland has been a lot better than with X11. I have been on Wayland for years, I can't remember the last time I had an issue (running Sway).

I suspect part of that is the Xorg maintainers (who are also behind Wayland efforts) are actively trying to kill it and make it as unbearable as possible

I'm still using Xorg after all these years, on a laptop with 150% scaling, which I occasionally plug into an external monitor with 100% scaling. Somewhat surprisingly, it works great. (Cinnamon desktop, Ryzen 7840u integrated graphics. And also a desktop machine with Radeon RX 6800XT, but it's not surprising that still works great.)

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#264

Post by rzerowan »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #205
Cyph0n wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the Python 2 to 3 migration took a decade, isn’t it reasonable for a display server migration to take even more time to stabilize? Especially given: (1) The (relatively) fragmented reality of Linux distros and desktop managers. I am sure that such a migration could have been executed faster had the Linux desktop world been more centralized like Windows or macOS. (2) The age and maturity of X11

The python 2 to 3 situation was a similar colossal mistake of honestly incompetent developers who really enjoy programming in their free time who don't understand that time is money for most people. By comparison, Rust with its edition system understands this. But this is the major issue. They don't understand that even if Wayland had feature-parity with X11. The simple fact that it works differently means that if I…

Not to mention that p3 on its own was prettymuch functional and p2 quite stable and the major issue was migrating/porting all the legacy over to p3 .Hence bridges like six and 2-to-3 that at least attempted to smooth the transition over by allowing bot to coexist for a time.

With wayland they seem not to be even entertaing this optionality - with wayland itself being not yet feature complete to standalone.And the attempts to bridge like xwayland coming way after the fact and pushing a oneway path with no coexisting situation.

As a result introducinga whole lot of friction and surprises in UI functionality. So yeah at a time when the presentation layer should be a boring afterthough, it is too timeconsuming in part of a Linux setup and daily usage.

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#265

Post by ikekkdcjkfke »

elementaryOS Luna was peak for me, 2014, on my 13’. Long battery life, smooth UI, smooth multi-desktop switching (which windows 11 now implements). Later versions of eOS became laggy after they upgraded the underlying ubuntu. Been on windows since that. What i wish for in a linux desktop is just pure efficiency, no background processes, not too much UI like ubuntu has,UI implemented efficiently and hw accelerated

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#266

Post by happymellon »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #261
happymellon wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't know what's going on, why comment? A guy decided that after getting all his patches rejected because they cause tests to fail, doesn't compile, etc. that the problem is everyone else and decided to fork XOrg. He then announced that the problem wasn't his code that didn't compile but DEI so based the entire forking around being a political conservative. Everything I've seen written by him shows him to be…

There are a lot of distros that have xlibre packages for something that ostensibly doesn't compile. I wouldn't trust the reason given by the people who have said that they're trying to kill Xorg for why they're rejecting patches from someone trying to improve Xorg

> There are a lot of distros that have xlibre packages for something that ostensibly doesn't compile.

No one says xlibre doesn't compile, but good attempt at a distraction. Have you considered invading a country as an alternative way to distract from terrible views?

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#267

Post by opan »

throw567643u8 wrote: post #211
lhl wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funy that you mention multi-monitor since it's one of the reasons I eventually moved to Wayland. The only way to support different DPI monitors in X was to do janky scaling or even jankier multiple X servers. I don't use KDE (or GNOME anymore) but while I had to deal with a lot of initial speedbumps a couple years ago, these days instead of a full DE, I'm using a Niri setup and it's worked out great for me. For my la…

Does anyone have links on how to set up multi monitor on Sway?

I use a docked ThinkPad with the lid closed and two external monitors. Here are my config bits.

  set $laptop eDP-1
  set $landscape 'Hewlett Packard HP ZR24w CNT037144C'
  set $portrait 'Hewlett Packard HP ZR24w CNT03512JN'
  bindswitch --reload --locked lid:on output $laptop disable
  bindswitch --reload --locked lid:off output $laptop enable
  
  ### Output configuration
  output $laptop bg $HOME/pictures/wallpaper/1529004448340.jpg fill
  output $landscape bg $HOME/pictures/wallpaper/1529004448340.jpg fill
  output $portrait bg $HOME/pictures/wallpaper/portrait/DYabJ0FV4AACG69.jpg fill 
  # pos args are x coords and y coords, transform is degrees of rotation counter-clockwise
  # set $portrait as left monitor and rotate it counterclockwise
  output $portrait pos 0 1200 transform 270

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#268

Post by pabs3 »

erelong wrote: post #63

is it possible to create another alternative to both x11 and wayland that might correct some of these issues? (especially now with ai assistance?) I can see arguments for improving x11 but wayland still isn't there and I end up having to not use it for that reason

Take a look at Arcan, it supports both X11 and Wayland (and I think other protocols too).

https://arcan-fe.com/

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#270

Post by jgilias »

palata wrote: post #17

Disclaimer: I don't have any skin in this game, I was fine with X11 and I am fine with Wayland, and I actually think it's nice to have both (and more, like Xlibre I think?). I understand complaints about systemd, I don't understand the complaints about Wayland. This whole article sounds like a big rant and doesn't seem to bring much information. > I also don't care for the "security" argument when parts of the core r…

This page linked in the bottom explains a lot:

https://www.kicad.org/blog/2025/06/KiCad-and-Wayland-Support...

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