BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time • Hacker News Board

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#261

Post by shafyy » Fri, Mar 06, 2026, 9:44 AM UTC

ivan_gammel wrote: post #259

Bewelge wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s exactly my point. If a problem exists or a solution to a problem is possible about which no party is willing to talk about, it will not show it. The choice of topics is based on party opinions, not on voter surveys. This is called bias. It's not a bias. I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of the word. We vote for parties and the wahl-o-mat compares the opinion of these parties. It would be biased if…

It gives unfair advantage to incumbent parties by shaping the political agenda and manipulating public opinion. When you look at the housing crisis in big cities and what Wahl-O-Mat displays as the options on the table based on political programs, it is very easy to think that the selection of options is exhaustive. Public is effectively pushed into discussing only those options, none of which is a good solution. Yet…

That's not true. I just now went through the Wahl-o-Mat for Baden-Württemberg (because there are elections there this Sunday, March 8). From the 38 questions, there are two that directly address the housing crisis:

> Die Mietpreisbremse in baden-württembergischen Städten und Gemeinden soll abgeschafft werden

> Länger leerstehende Mietwohnungen sollen ihren Eigentümerinnen und Eigentümer konsequent entzogen und vermietet werden.

Why do you think those options are not good options to address the housing crisis? Are there other levers? Of course, but Mietpreisbremse (freezing rents) and Leerstand (empty houses) are certainly key levers. And the point of the Wahl-o-Mat is to give you an indication over overlap, not to list and let you decide on single political initiatives.

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#262

Post by rasz » Fri, Mar 06, 2026, 11:18 AM UTC

marceldegraaf wrote: post #150

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, I disagree. The ergonomics on my Miele are very good. It is clear that attention was paid to many details of using it.

I recently replaced the shock dampers on our Miele washing machine (~10 years old) and I was amazed how well designed and ergonomic the inside of the machine is. Parts are very easy to get at, all screws are Torx of identical size, and there's one very obvious way to take the machine apart and put it back together again. Made the replacement a breeze.

> I was amazed how well designed and ergonomic the inside of the machine is

Now do an alternator on a VAG car :)

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#263

Post by ivan_gammel » Fri, Mar 06, 2026, 11:20 AM UTC

shafyy wrote: post #261

ivan_gammel wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gives unfair advantage to incumbent parties by shaping the political agenda and manipulating public opinion. When you look at the housing crisis in big cities and what Wahl-O-Mat displays as the options on the table based on political programs, it is very easy to think that the selection of options is exhaustive. Public is effectively pushed into discussing only those options, none of which is a good solution. Yet…

That's not true. I just now went through the Wahl-o-Mat for Baden-Württemberg (because there are elections there this Sunday, March 8). From the 38 questions, there are two that directly address the housing crisis: > Die Mietpreisbremse in baden-württembergischen Städten und Gemeinden soll abgeschafft werden > Länger leerstehende Mietwohnungen sollen ihren Eigentümerinnen und Eigentümer konsequent entzogen und vermie…

> That's not true

What exactly is not true?

> Are there other levers? Of course, but Mietpreisbremse (freezing rents) and Leerstand (empty houses) are certainly key levers.

They are not the key levers, which everyone with basic knowledge of economics should understand immediately.

Regardless of whether certain segment is operated by market, by regulation or by combination of two, it is always about supply matching the demand. If you have more demand than supply, either prices will increase or you enter the state of deficit, where non-market mechanisms will decide who will get home and who will not. In either case prolonged state of reduced supply leads to crisis. Neither of those levers does solve problem of supply reliably. There’s simply not enough empty homes on the market to consider efficient management of them a solution. Rent controls also do not help here, because they actually reduce supply, by creating black market of subleases and reducing mobility (people stick to their regulated contracts).

The solution to the problem requires multiple reforms at once, which will fix short term and long term supply:

1. Dramatically deregulating supply side and reducing NIMBY influence. Project approvals should not take 7 years as in Berlin Friedrichshain and should not be blocked by survival of some rare toads like in Berlin Pankow.

2. Streamlining microdistrict planning, where one project includes construction of thousands of homes along with the necessary infrastructure. May include rapid construction tech (Plattenbau 2.0). It is not enough to build one building here and there, we need to build a lot more.

3. Shifting from majority rental to majority ownership model in which mobility is supported by market, low commissions (remove notaries, reduce taxes) and fast registration of property rights. It must be possible to sell and buy in 2-3 weeks maximum. The large landlords should be re-privatized: first, state takes over, then rentals are converted to subsidized lease deals with tenants with transferrable rights, in which tenants will effectively own their homes, while continuing to pay the current, never increasing amounts.

4. Progressive tax on property ownership kicking in from 0% on 3-5 apartments to significant percentage of rent value on 50+ apartments. The for-profit landlord business model must become unattractive, while not putting too much pressure on small landlords which are more market-friendly.

This kind of reform is neither left, nor right. It’s anti-capitalist, because it prevents concentration of capital and negative redistribution, but it is also pro-market, because it hands over the ownership to millions of people which can then freely sell and buy for their own use.

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#264

Post by RGamma » Fri, Mar 06, 2026, 1:26 PM UTC

slaw wrote: post #229

RGamma wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~46M employed (of which ~16M part time, usually related to child or elder care), ~84M total population, ~22M pensioners, avg age ~47, lots of SMEs, little natural resources. It's part of necessary consolidation. Considering all that, we're doing quite well...

[flagged]

They're part of the reason we're doing so well. Source: Know some.

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#265

Post by dogemaster2025 » Fri, Mar 06, 2026, 3:18 PM UTC

collingreen wrote: post #221

dogemaster2025 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certain liberal cities are the “East US.”

Which certain ones and in which way are they like the east Germany mentioned? Or is this just lazy bigotslop?

The socialist ones, which were like east Germany because they are socialist.

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#266

Post by Bewelge » Fri, Mar 06, 2026, 3:20 PM UTC

ivan_gammel wrote: post #259

Bewelge wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s exactly my point. If a problem exists or a solution to a problem is possible about which no party is willing to talk about, it will not show it. The choice of topics is based on party opinions, not on voter surveys. This is called bias. It's not a bias. I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of the word. We vote for parties and the wahl-o-mat compares the opinion of these parties. It would be biased if…

It gives unfair advantage to incumbent parties by shaping the political agenda and manipulating public opinion. When you look at the housing crisis in big cities and what Wahl-O-Mat displays as the options on the table based on political programs, it is very easy to think that the selection of options is exhaustive. Public is effectively pushed into discussing only those options, none of which is a good solution. Yet…

I did do a German search as well. And bias in that case would be something like "parteiisch" "bevor-/nachteilen". In 2019 a court did say it gives an advantage to incumbents because you had to limit your results to 8 parties. They've changed that since. The article you've linked is talking about its usefulness in general and not that it gives unfair advantages to anyone.

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of the thing myself and I agree that most of your proposals would improve the tool. But calling it a tool that compares political parties biased makes it sound deceptive. And I don't believe that it's deceptive. It's just ineffective.

The fact that it gives an "unfair advantage to incumbents" also isn't really a bias of the tool. It really just is the most obvious fair way to structure it. Large parties are large because a large amount of people vote for them. So they obviously have more visibility.

But I also agree that the majority rule of an ageing population in Germany is problematic. With most incumbents seemingly agreeing to not talk about the future.

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#267

Post by niemandhier » Fri, Mar 06, 2026, 7:17 PM UTC

This is surprisingly honest, let’s see if they can scale.

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#268

Post by max51 » Fri, Mar 06, 2026, 8:55 PM UTC

labcomputer wrote: post #202

throwaway2037 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assume that later models of the 747 were managed in Excel. No trolling: What is wrong with that? You can write insanely powerful software using (1) formulas on the sheet (which are essentially functional programming) and (2) imperative logic in VBA (HTTP calls, database calls, file system, etc.). For years, I used this model and wrote pretty powerful software. Sometimes, I miss it for the encapsulated system. These d…

> No trolling: What is wrong with that? Because you can't define a named custom formula by composing the built-ins. So every cell is just the same copy-pasted formula string. When you need to change something, you have to change it everywhere and pray that you didn't miss one usage. I can't count how many times I found a bug in a spreadsheet because someone (who might be me) missed one or two instances.

Yes, you can define your own named custom formulas in Excel.

I prefer to do it with VBA code because I find it easier to manage, but it's also possible without VBA using just the built-ins in the spreadsheet directly.

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#269

Post by neuralRiot » Fri, Mar 06, 2026, 9:50 PM UTC

Gravityloss wrote: post #168

pcurve wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if you've ever driven a German car, you'll realize that the car was built for engineers and not for end users " cracks me up. I once leased a BMW for 3 years. By the time I returned the car, I still didn't what all the cryptic buttons for HVAC and other controls. They just refused to follow established automotive ergonomic conventions. Anyway, my father used to do business with Germans for a long time. He had many i…

I have long experience of multiple German car brands. The interface spectrum goes like this: driving and seats etc are close to perfect for me. As long as it's about buttons, they are really good. But once it goes to screens, it starts getting worse. And then, with mobile app, it's basically barely functioning at all.

I work on German cars on a daily basis, the “online diagnostic” of one of the top brands runs on a sort of remote desktop fashion complete with windows boot screen, I don’t need to tell you that speed is not one of its main features.

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#270

Post by ivan_gammel » Fri, Mar 06, 2026, 10:46 PM UTC

Bewelge wrote: post #266

ivan_gammel wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gives unfair advantage to incumbent parties by shaping the political agenda and manipulating public opinion. When you look at the housing crisis in big cities and what Wahl-O-Mat displays as the options on the table based on political programs, it is very easy to think that the selection of options is exhaustive. Public is effectively pushed into discussing only those options, none of which is a good solution. Yet…

I did do a German search as well. And bias in that case would be something like "parteiisch" "bevor-/nachteilen". In 2019 a court did say it gives an advantage to incumbents because you had to limit your results to 8 parties. They've changed that since. The article you've linked is talking about its usefulness in general and not that it gives unfair advantages to anyone. Honestly, I'm not a big fan of the thing mysel…

Bias: A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.

Let’s say there are parties A, B and C. A and B offer something populist solutions Sa and Sb to very important problem X, C does not promise anything on it, but offers solution for less important problem Y (single issue party). If voter thinks that Sa and Sb are the only choices, they may choose A or B, because it feels right. If voter was informed that neither Sa, nor Sb solve the problem, but some other solution Sx not supported by any party would do it, party C could become a reasonable choice - at least you get something done this way. This would be impartial judgement. Wahl-O-Mat inhibits this scenario, so yes, it is biased, it is deceptive.