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Ars Technica fires reporter after AI controversy involving fabricated quotes

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Re: Ars Technica fires reporter after AI controversy involving fabricated quotes

#261

Post by Hnrobert42 »

g947o wrote: post #212
jrmg wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it normal/expected for a news organization to publish that they fired someone? I’m inclined to take the ‘don’t comment on personnel matters’ at face value. They did report on the article quote sourcing debacle at the time - perhaps not as quickly as some would’ve liked, but within a couple of days.

If a news organization publishes an article welcoming someone onboard, they should also do that when someone is fired because of a scandal. Of course, if someone leaves because of personal reasons or jumping ship, there is no reason to do that. But this is different.

The complications of HR policy and law do not allow for your proposed solution.

Re: Ars Technica fires reporter after AI controversy involving fabricated quotes

#262

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

watwut wrote: post #120
petterroea wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that AnonC is upset at Ars not taking the mature approach by allowing this to become a learning moment for the employee and using it to double down and confirm their stance on AI generated content. There's strength in maturity. But I am doing some reading between the lines, and I'm possibly reading a bit too much into "There’s something to be said about the value of owning up to issues" Reminds me…

Accidentally taking down production should not lead to firing. It should lead to improved process Making up quotes for article, with technology or not, should lead to firing.

"should lead to firing..."

... and, also, improved processes. There should be no way an individual writer can damage the brand to this extent with absolutely no checks or oversight. This was just an error, but a bad actor could've put something far, far worse out there.

Even an automated quote-checker might have helped in this case.

Re: Ars Technica fires reporter after AI controversy involving fabricated quotes

#263

Post by Hnrobert42 »

raincole wrote: post #39

I have to admit, nowadays Google AI Overview's accuracy is so good that I often don't check the links. It's scary that it got from 'practically useless' to 'the actual google search' in less than two years. I really don't know where the internet is heading to and how any content site can survive.

Of what relevance is this to this discussion?

Re: Ars Technica fires reporter after AI controversy involving fabricated quotes

#264

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

DiskoHexyl wrote: post #199
mikkupikku wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any evidence that Are Technica management induced this journalist to use AI, or are you just claiming it's an "open secret" and don't know anything about this specific incident? Because without any kind of details it kind of sounds like the latter, maybe motivated by a reflex to blame management whenever workers blunder? Unless there's evidence that a actually points at Ars Technica management, dismissing th…

I didn't state that Ars Technica specifically mandate LLM use for their authors. What I did state about them is that their editorial standards are lacking, and they tend to produce a lot of clickbait. IMO the industry is in crisis

> I'ts an open secret that even the larger news outlets mandate LLM use.

Given the context, if you didn't intend for this to imply that Ars mandates LLM use, you should probably rewrite it.

Re: Ars Technica fires reporter after AI controversy involving fabricated quotes

#265

Post by donohoe »

DiskoHexyl wrote: post #196

I'ts an open secret that even the larger news outlets mandate LLM use. They buy subscriptions and have guidelines on how to mask the output (so that it would read less AI'ed), how to fact-check the links and the quotes etc. The authors which aren't willing to jump on this particular train are quickly let go due to performance. The expectation is to produce more with much less (staff), the pipeline is heavily optimize…

I would love to hear more about this “open secret” - especially the guidance on how to “mask the output” etc. because as someone who works in news/media it’s news to me.

Re: Ars Technica fires reporter after AI controversy involving fabricated quotes

#266

Post by sbarre »

infotainment wrote: post #167
DamnableNook wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eric Berger has a strong pro-Musk bias (having literally written a fawning book about him). To him, Musk can do no wrong, it seems. I also dislike Dan Goodin’s reporting. He tries to talk the talk, but nearly every article he writes has some tell that he doesn’t really understand the thing he’s reporting on. Which is fine if he was relying on third-party expertise and quoting that, but he tries to make it sound like…

I'd say if one has any interest in writing objectively about space technology, one will likely end up being perceived as having a "pro-Musk bias". Elon himself is indeed questionable, but you really can't argue with his space-related achievements. Even other eccentric billionaires like Bezos haven't come close.

Perhaps we should be attributing the "space-related achievements" to Musk's companies and employees, and not to him directly, or at least not solely?

Re: Ars Technica fires reporter after AI controversy involving fabricated quotes

#267

Post by g947o »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #261
g947o wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a news organization publishes an article welcoming someone onboard, they should also do that when someone is fired because of a scandal. Of course, if someone leaves because of personal reasons or jumping ship, there is no reason to do that. But this is different.

The complications of HR policy and law do not allow for your proposed solution.

I have no experience in that area, but it's hard to see how a plain, factual statement "This person is no longer with the company." can be problematic.

Re: Ars Technica fires reporter after AI controversy involving fabricated quotes

#269

Post by crazygringo »

vintagedave wrote: post #161
beloch wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I inadvertently ended up with a paraphrased version of Shambaugh’s words rather than his actual words,” Edwards continued. He emphasized that the “text of the article was human-written by us, and this incident was isolated and is not representative of Ars‘ editorial standards." ---------- A reporter whose bailiwick is AI should have known that he needed to check any quotes an LLM spat out. The editorial staff should…

Yes: in newsrooms, this is the editor's responsibility. I note the editor wasn't fired.

It's the editor's responsibility to set processes and standards to try to make sure this doesn't happen. If the rules exist but the reporter breaks them, then it's the reporter's fault and they get fired. As happened -- that's part of the process of maintaining standards. It's not the editor's fault. What exactly do you expect them to do? They can't fact-check and verify every single fact and quote in every article. They're not superhuman.

Re: Ars Technica fires reporter after AI controversy involving fabricated quotes

#270

Post by jodrellblank »

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #198
b112 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Editorial staff? There was such a thing, in newspapers up until 2000. Then, as profits nosedived, these sorts of things largely disappeared. Purely online entities have no way to pay for real editorial staff. News has no money, compared to news of old. It's part of the reason 99% of modern news is just reporting other people's tweets or whatever. I can't imagine many news companies having much money for court battles…

Agreed. Modern news is beyond lazy, and is not journalism by any means. Too many talking heads do nothing but sit behind a screen watching others for what to say next. Granted, a few of the remaining newspapers I'm aware of run business awards (Best restaurant, etc), and the way to win is via wining and dining them, even though the paper claims it's based on people's votes. That style of thinking - of entitlement - p…

> is not journalism by any means

It literally is journal-ism.

Wikipedia: "Journalism is the production and distribution of reports on the interaction of events, facts, ideas, and people that are the "news of the day""

Britannica: "Journalism, the collection, preparation, and distribution of news and related commentary"

Stories from British Newspaper Archive[1]:

- June 1950 Cat in Tree in Sheffield - Sheffield Daily Telegraph

- July 1939 A cat which has sought refuge the top of a tree on Somerlayton Road, Stockwell, defied all attempts to get it down. - Sunderland Daily Echo.

- June 1956 A cat was rescued from a 60ft. oak tree by Southgate firemen at Abbotshall Avenue, Southgate. - Wood Green weekly herald.

- Ocober 1959 CAT UP TREE I was sorry to hear that your cat had been lost Frances, I hope he is none the worse for his experience up the tree, now. - Penrith Observer.

- July 1956 Cat in tree rescued. Worthing firemen rescued a cat - Worthing Herald.

- July 1955 RESCUED CAT IN TREE - Percy Kemp climbed 40ft up a tree to rescue a cat - Bradford Observer.

- November 1956 An emergency tender from the Eastbourne Fire Brigade went to the rescue of cat in a tree in Brassey-avenue, Hampden Park - Eastbourne Gazette.

- August 1953 Clifford Morton (25) climbed 120ft up a swaying fir tree to rescue a cat - Coventry Evening Telegraph.

- March 1950 Persian cat belonging to Mrs M. ___ ... heard meow-ing from a 40ft. tree in field nearby - Dundee Evening Telegraph.

- February 1950 CAT UP TREE A telescopic ladder. belonging to Birkenhead Fire Service was rushed three miles to Arrowe Park Road. Woodchurch. this afternoon. to rescue a cat which had climbed over 40 feet up a tree - Liverpool Echo

- October 1924 SHOTS AT CAT IN TREE .. It was stated that the boys saw a black Persian 'cat up a tree on the farm, and they fired at it - Daily Mirror

- July 1939 CAT IN TREE FOR TWO DAYS - Harlepool Northern Daily Mail

- August 1962 CAT IN TREE RESCUED BY FIREMEN - Lincolnshire Free PRess

- May 1956 The story of a stray cat, Mr. Budd and a 45ft, fir tree, was told at Wednesday's annual meeting of the Torquay and South-East Devon branch of the R.S.P.C.A. - Torquay Times

- etc. etc.

When was this imaginary wonderful time you're implying when newspapers were only speaking truth to power with mighty investigative reporting, and not literally a journal of things people did and said in a local area (or on a certain topic)?

[1] https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results?bas... tree&retrievecountrycounts=false

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