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Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

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Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#261

Post by clickety_clack »

Gigachad wrote: post #88
lukan wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I genuinely do not understand why other countries put up with this." Maybe because there is no drop in replacement of microsoft and microsoft dependant tools? So yes, one can (and should) build them. But the market right now is not offering this yet.

Google has drop in replacements for most of it. But that doesn’t solve the problem of using US tech.

After using both extensively, there is no comparison between Google and the MS suite. Google’s apps are like a toy version of MS Office.

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#262

Post by Thanemate »

whh wrote: post #68

I think a move to Open Source would be great in Europe, but only if the governments using the technologies are actively funding their development. This doesn't just mean once-off grants, or a bit of cash donated here and there. I would like to see per-user per-year contributions to the organisations that develop these tools on-par with the current spend going towards Microsoft Cloud products. It can be better than Mi…

I would replace "funding" with at minimum "contributing", because there are people who would think having a government actively dipping their toes in a product gives them right over actively piloting the direction of that product.

I've already seen online discussions of something similar happening when Valve announced that they're actively contributing to Arch Linux and KDE. But then, it's Valve.

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#263

Post by mfru »

flexie wrote: post #164
bradley13 wrote: post #80

That's great, but it's always just one agency, or one very local bit of government. If we (Europeans) really mean it - and we should - the top level of government just needs to make the declaration: as of X, all Microsoft licenses will be terminated. No exceptions. Adapt or die. According to the CLOUD act, the US government can demand access to data from US companies, regardless of where that data is stored. That mus…

I am Danish, working with IT in the private sector, but with regular contact to the public sector. I can assure you that there is plenty of other agencies, ministries, municipalities, private companies etc. in both Denmark and other European countries looking into switching to non-American software. "Data sovereignty" is now an important parameter when chosing supplier. Everybody asks about it it. Everybody plans aro…

Second that, even though it seems that there is nothing happening yet, many companies and government agencies in all of Europe are aware of their hard Microsoft dependency and are looking / coordinating to leave.

Same with Atlassian Confluence / Jira.

(Source: Working in a state owend company in a EU member country)

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#264

Post by tchalla »

embedding-shape wrote: post #199
tchalla wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won’t but it creates a sense of urgency.

Not exactly the best conditions for making good and measured choices, I'd prefer if we didn't add more urgency than what most of us (Europeans) feel already. Everyone already have it on their mind when making purchasing decisions now, no need to also make those people do rash decisions.

The reason Europeans feel the urgency is because of rigid minders and failure to act at least 10-15 years ago. So now it’s ok to bite the bullet a bit. It’s a lesson for the next time.

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#266

Post by bombcar »

beached_whale wrote: post #253
edwinjm wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An American company will always follow US law, no matter the local laws.

It isn't usually an American company doing the local operations, but a local subsidiary. Like Walmart Canada telling Walmart corporate to pound sand in the 1990's over Cuban pajamas. It's illegal for Canadian companies to participate in the US embargo of Cuba. This is all well within the realm of what governments can and do regulate. Want to do business in a country with their laws or not is the choice.

At some point it comes to a head; Walmart corporate and the USA didn't care enough about Cuban pajamas, but in a situation where they DO care, you quickly get Вкусно – и точка.

The EU (nay, perhaps every country) should be prepared to deal with Microsoft or AWS completely cutting them off from access to all their systems - what would be the cost and impact?

We are rapidly heading to not one Internet, but country-specific internets that may or may not bridge to other ones in some cases.

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#267

Post by brunoborges »

koalacongregate wrote: post #228
foobarian wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we discuss DNS root servers at some point too?

I've had this thought too - of the 13 root servers, 10 are US or US-based companies. The only exceptions are Netnod (Sweden), RIPE NCC (Netherlands), WIDE Project (Japan). Even ICANN and Internet Systems Consortium are US-based non-profits... How do you even mitigate risk in this case?

How does one start a Root DNS business?

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#268

Post by bombcar »

esafak wrote: post #229
Razengan wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If not, who are your preferred providers? Can we have fully decentralized mesh networking yet? I love how some hyper-sci-fi settings have the concept of a "datasphere" (analogous to atmosphere): an actual physical cloud of ubiquitous nanorobots that provide connectivity, storage and computation. Wouldn't that also be ideal for AI too the way it's shaping up to be? Any device anywhere would just need to connect to a…

Dealing with the patchwork of lesser-known infra providers in the EU is work enough. You want to live life on hard mode!

If everyone started doing it, it would get easier and easier. There's no inherent reason why the various AWS services shouldn't be completely replaceable with similar services from other vendors on a whim.

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#269

Post by MengerSponge »

slow_typist wrote: post #149
nunobrito wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Typically is some town hall shifting to Linux and making a big fuss when literally million others are still running Windows. Seeing an agency doing it is good, but still less than the French ditching Teams and Zoom altogether as country-wide policy.

But still, this is Denmark’s tech modernization agency. They follow an eat-your-own-dogfood stance. Transforming the public administration is the logical next step. Something different happening here, not the town hall big fuss approach.

It makes you wonder what critics think the process should look like?

Plan A: Just burn it down and rebuild FOSS in the ashes.

Plan B: The tech modernization agency can make the transition, document and enhance the process, and then guide less savvy users.

I dunno. Tough call.

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#270

Post by hermanzegerman »

lukan wrote: post #131
hermanzegerman wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way do they need Microsoft Software or Technology except maybe Windows for their Passport Application? That's special software developed for one customer only anyways. So it's perfectly possible to target another Platform or do this as some kind of WebApp. And until then run some Windows Desktops for those special applications/services

"So it's perfectly possible to target another Platform or do this as some kind of WebApp." Yes, it is possible to rewrite software. But currently most of that software was written and licenced for windows. Just choosing another plattform might, or might not work. And if it doesn't, many people will be angry for not getting tax refunds back, or getting a new passport, or being able to register a new car etc. Bugs are…

Yes and you conveniently ignored the part where I said you can operate some Windows Desktops or VMs for those services until a replacement is ready.

Just because you can't replace 100% tomorrow doesn't mean that you shouldn't begin today, or never try at all

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