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We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

theguardian.com

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Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#261

Post by rayiner »

mr_00ff00 wrote: post #181
lateforwork wrote: post #112

In all important areas such as clean energy, fusion energy, biotechnology and AI the Chinese government is heavily investing in and pushing Chinese companies to lead the world. China Is Outspending the U.S. to Achieve the ‘Holy Grail’ of Clean Energy: Fusion See: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/13/climate/china-us-fusion-e... America's lead in biotechnology is slipping, while China has made synthetic biology a nation…

But related to this article, is China winning in terms of accumulating talent? I don’t think people all over Europe/Asia/Africa migrate to China. If they succeed, it’s purely with their own talent. The US still has that advantage even if it has less of it, unless I am mistaken.

The importance of immigrant “talent” is clearly overstated. Japan became a powerhouse in the 20th century with virtually no immigration and a significantly smaller population than the US. China is becoming a technological powerhouse with no immigration as well.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#262

Post by gonzobonzo »

roughly wrote: post #60
agumonkey wrote: post #46

It's also repelling their own citizen. Lots of videos of people being fed up with the ambient angst in the US any time they come back from another country.

This is a thing that you don’t notice until you experience it. No more compelling argument that we’re doing something wrong as a nation than that first time stepping onto an American street after visiting a civilized country.

True, after you visit a country where the cities are entirely safe and there aren't really any bad parts, it's disheartening to return to American cities where people say: "It's really safe! Just ignore these areas, don't go out late out night, keep an eye out when you walk around, and just ignore the crazy people yelling threats at you, they probably won't do anything."

Americans really put up with low standards in a lot of areas, and it becomes obvious the more you travel.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#263

Post by torstenvl »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #259
torstenvl wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I would argue that wherever you're getting your news from is lying by omission and you have no idea what's actually happening out there. Alternatively, you're engaging in willful ignorance. Yes, it's reasonable to want to enforce immigration laws, but ICE has been engaging in outright criminal behavior. Arresting and imprisoning US citizens, denying due process, then ignoring court orders to release them. Meanwhile,…

[flagged]

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#264

Post by Cyph0n »

direwolf20 wrote: post #193
Cyph0n wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add one more point that makes the US attractive to global talent: citizenship. In particular: 1) citizenship at birth and 2) viable path to citizenship via green card. Of course, both of these are in the crosshairs for “revision”.

It's much easier to get citizenship almost anywhere else in the world than to get it in the USA by green card.

Uh not really? As a comparison, it is almost impossible to naturalize if you decide to work in the two cited examples (China and KSA).

Also, the green card process very much depends on your nationality.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#265

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

eleventyseven wrote: post #163
ohyoutravel wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of folks vote against better healthcare. Perhaps they “deserve” better healthcare regardless as they’re human, but perhaps they deserve the outcomes they specifically voted for. Otherwise it feels a little paternalistic.

[flagged]

What if I feel terrible for the children, but feel a smug delight over watching their parents mourn the loss that they could have easily prevented?

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#266

Post by shimman »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #4

Frankly, if the places that dominate at healthcare delivery efficiency also dominate at research, that could be good for the world. The US having a dogshit healthcare delivery system but so much research means that good vertical integration is not possible. Conversely a more integrated EU — continent scale welfare state — could do really interesting "integrated OpEx and CapEx" medical research in ways that are simply…

You're making a lot of assumptions: that providers are healthcare providers, that providers want to provide more healthcare, or that providers are incentivized to pay for better healthcare.

I'm sure the system you want would exist if healthcare providers had one customer to worry about: the US government. I can't think of a single doctor, the ones that actually want to help people and not cash a phat check, that likes the current system of filling out paperwork or begging to do surgeries for patients from insurance companies.

Most actually want to just provide care.

Get rid of the middle man, get rid of the profit motive, and you'll get a system that society can actually shape.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#267

Post by autoexec »

rayiner wrote: post #191
ei8ths wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

have you seen our school systems, k12. Its terrible and in dire need of a revamp. No child left behind really screwed kids over that want to learn. We cant just let kids pass because of feelings. Made schools better, have alternative paths for kids that are not excelling like some of their peers and find school hard to sit through.

> No child left behind really screwed kids over that want to learn. We cant just let kids pass because of feelings The whole point of no child left behind was to actually measure student performance instead of relying on feelings: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/no-child-left-behind-wo... If you try to disaggregate the effects of e.g. immigration, you can see that American education is actually good: https://www…

Over half of the adults in the US can't read at a 6th-grade level. They aren't all immigrants. Clearly American education is not actually good.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#268

Post by rayiner »

conception wrote: post #186
mr_00ff00 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But related to this article, is China winning in terms of accumulating talent? I don’t think people all over Europe/Asia/Africa migrate to China. If they succeed, it’s purely with their own talent. The US still has that advantage even if it has less of it, unless I am mistaken.

Well, China has a tremendous pool of people to pull talent from. Do they need immigrants? Or just continue the path of “building it in-house”?

China’s pool is smaller than it seems. China has pursued a development trajectory that focuses on the leading provinces first. That is reasonable. Better to get Beijing and a few other key places to the leading edge first, instead of trying to incrementally move all 1.4 billion people together at the same pace.

But the flip side of that is that China’s talent pool is a lot smaller, in practice, than 1.4 billion. Because vast swaths of the country are still basically the third world. Tellingly, China does not participate in the international PISA assessment across the whole country: https://www.milkenreview.org/articles/are-chinas-students-re.... It released scores for four wealthy provinces back in 2018. They were very high, but there’s obviously a reason China doesn’t test and publish scores for the whole country.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#270

Post by rayiner »

shiroiuma wrote: post #211
lateforwork wrote: post #112

In all important areas such as clean energy, fusion energy, biotechnology and AI the Chinese government is heavily investing in and pushing Chinese companies to lead the world. China Is Outspending the U.S. to Achieve the ‘Holy Grail’ of Clean Energy: Fusion See: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/13/climate/china-us-fusion-e... America's lead in biotechnology is slipping, while China has made synthetic biology a nation…

[flagged]

Your comment makes no sense. I think it’s pretty safe to say that China has higher technological momentum than the U.S., and the U.S. has higher technological momentum than the EU. But that’s also the same ordering for xenophobia and far-right leadership: https://www.npr.org/2021/09/02/1033687586/china-ban-effemina.... China clearly is the most xenophobic and right wing, followed by the U.S., followed by the EU.
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