Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

ft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 339 posts

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#261

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

cheema33 wrote: post #226
FuriouslyAdrift wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at a manufacturing supplier (packaging and logistics) and our business has been on fire since the trade war kicked off. Pre-COVID we were at ~$25MM yearly and now we are $150MM+ and growing steadily. We just bought a million sq ft building (that was an old RCA plant) and millions in new machinery to keep up. We are only a regional player, too.

> Pre-COVID we were at ~$25MM yearly and now we are $150MM+ and growing steadily. And you think this is due to tariffs? If so, please provide some details.

Manufacturing is booming in the Midwest which is the region we service. They have more business, we have more business.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#262

Post by varispeed »

Aloisius wrote: post #225
varispeed wrote: post #111

Many carriers also effectively stopped honouring DAP Incoterm. If consumer doesn't pay the tariff within 2 months or so, they charge the shipper. See FedEx for instance: 14.6 Regardless of any payment instructions to the contrary, the Sender is ultimately responsible for payment of duties and taxes and all fees and surcharges related to FedEx’s disbursement of duties and taxes if payment is not received. If a Recipie…

This has been in FedEx's terms for at least two decades.

Not exactly. The most significant change in the 2025 language is the explicit right for FedEx to automatically settle uncollected duties and taxes against the credit card used for the initial transportation charges. Previously, FedEx would typically issue a separate invoice for duties and taxes and attempt to collect it via standard billing cycles.

In short, they now often release shipments without attempting to collect payment from the recipient and charge the shipper.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#263

Post by josefritzishere »

hackyhacky wrote: post #135
phkahler wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. They're on goods from China. The intent is to make that stuff more expensive so we can compete.

> The intent is to make that stuff more expensive so we can compete. This would seem to be an admission that the domestic product is inferior, otherwise why would it be necessary to burden the import with tariffs? In any case, if that's the intent, it's not working out for fairly predictable reasons. Lots of imported goods have no domestic equivalent. The factories required to make them require years of investment, w…

Their argument is so fundamentlaly false though. If the idea is to make American businesses more competitive, why tariff raw materials? That raises the cost of American goods. It makes us less competitive. They are either very bad at this, or the purpose of the tax is different than advertised.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#264

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

neilwilson wrote: post #154
FuriouslyAdrift wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at a manufacturing supplier (packaging and logistics) and our business has been on fire since the trade war kicked off. Pre-COVID we were at ~$25MM yearly and now we are $150MM+ and growing steadily. We just bought a million sq ft building (that was an old RCA plant) and millions in new machinery to keep up. We are only a regional player, too.

What has been the impact on the distribution in the firm. Have more staff been hired, have more supply contracts been handed out, have worker bonuses increases or has it all flowed to the bottom line? This is the other side of tariffs that few discuss. It may put import prices up, but it also increases the domestic flow of income. Which means that those who rely solely on imports pay the cost and those who make the d…

We've doubled (or more) in headcount. Mostly in the 'special projects' area (complex shippers, partitions, pallets, parts movers, etc) and truck drivers (we have our own trucking company)

Our prices are primarily pegged to what brown paper is (used to make corrugated) which ebbs and flows. Our prices were affected a little because a lot of pulp and raw material comes from Canada (they sell soft wood incredibly cheap... it's actually been a point of contention in our treaty for decades) but the cost change has been fairly slight (close to inflation).

Labor prices have gone up a decent amount and so has health care. We've found savings in increased efficiency due to scaling up production (there are some big fixed costs wrt machinery that becomes a smaller piece of the pie with increased production).

Nobody imports boxes... cost of transport is more than the product which is why almost all box makers have regional plants.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#265

Post by acdha »

phkahler wrote: post #119
hackyhacky wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone has been getting sold that these tariffs are on "China" Everyone? No, only the willfully ignorant.

Right. They're on goods from China. The intent is to make that stuff more expensive so we can compete.

That’s not the intent. It could be a more defensible intent if it was paired with a Biden-style program to develop domestic manufacturing capabilities, but that never happened and if it did it would be targeted. Raising taxes on chocolate, vanilla, and coffee, for example, doesn’t affect China and doesn’t change the fact that those don’t grow well in the continental United States (and Hawaii / Puerto Rico don’t have the capacity).

What’s worse, this often raises domestic prices: unless we have robust competition, taxing imports just raises the ceiling for what an existing manufacturer can charge while the uncertainty discourages investment in new capacity: moving entire supply chains takes years and the tariffs changing frequently means that anyone financing it has to price in their competitive edge disappearing if the right cryptocurrency purchase gets the tariff rescinded.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#266

Post by edmundsauto »

pembrook wrote: post #18

The US has needed to raise taxes for decades given the level of spending the federal government does and constant "relief" packages that everyone now expects the minute there's a downturn. The runaway deficit is a massive problem now given the age of 0 interest rates is over. So what's astonishing is, whether you like him or not, the Orange man actually got the American public to accept what is defacto the largest ta…

He successfully raised taxes on poorer Americans while providing an even larger tax cut to the richest Americans. He also gutted the enforcement arm for said tax collection.

Netting it out, it’s a loss in revenue that disproportionately helps the richest and taxes the poor while making the government revenue decline. While also making the US dollar decline, multiplying the losses.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#267

Post by edmundsauto »

bettercallsalad wrote: post #199

FT is a globalist mouthpiece. I don’t support tariff but it being used as a negotiating technique is the only choice here to reduce trade deficit. US can’t keep up the trade deficit it currently has. It requires endless fiscal deficit and sell paper money to others that sends their cheap stuff to US. With growing deficit, the interest payment now is soon to be higher than defence budget. Something has to give.

When will we see the lower interest payments as a result of the tariffs, and how much lower will they be? The initial signals are in the opposite direction as your comment indicates. Maybe it’s a short term pain for long term gain: but when, and how much, and what is the evidence that will be true?

Because it seems more likely to me that we have a greedy moron in charge who doesn’t mind his “business” (aka our society) loses trillions as long as his family and friends make billions.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#268

Post by Aloisius »

varispeed wrote: post #262
Aloisius wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been in FedEx's terms for at least two decades.

Not exactly. The most significant change in the 2025 language is the explicit right for FedEx to automatically settle uncollected duties and taxes against the credit card used for the initial transportation charges. Previously, FedEx would typically issue a separate invoice for duties and taxes and attempt to collect it via standard billing cycles. In short, they now often release shipments without attempting to coll…

This is from their terms in 2006. The last line permits FedEx to charge the sender's credit card for duties it advanced:

> Duties and taxes may generally be billed to the sender, the recipient or a third party. If the sender fails to designate a payer on the air waybill, duties and taxes will automatically be billed to the recipient where allowed. Bill Sender Duties and Taxes and Bill Third Party Duties and Taxes are options available only for deliveries to specified locations. REGARDLESS OF ANY PAYMENT INSTRUCTIONS TO THE CONTRARY, THE SENDER IS ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR PAYMENT OF DUTIES AND TAXES IF PAYMENT IS NOT RECEIVED. If transportation charges for a shipment are billed to a credit card, FedEx reserves the right to also settle uncollected duties and taxes charges associated with that shipment to the credit card account.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#269

Post by tastyfreeze »

nullocator wrote: post #256
tastyfreeze wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every tax ever implemented by government has been initially sold as a tax on the rich. The people voting for it assume they will never be taxed because they aren't currently rich. But, there is never enough of other peoples money to spend. So, taxes expand and/or increase to include more people. The original income tax was sold as 1% on mid income and 2% on high income. At the time more than half the country was not…

Maybe because the rich consistently lobby and weasel their way out of paying their fair share so the burden on everyone else continues to rise?

Or, no amount of money is ever enough for government and taxing income is a dumb value to collect revenue.

Southern states supported an income tax because they believed it would make it possible to collect revenue for indigent people. Exactly opposite of "taxes the rich".

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#270

Post by tw85 »

LastTrain wrote: post #251
JungleGymSam wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don't actually believe that is a one sided thing do you?

Predominately, yes. It has been weaponized by the current Republican party. I'm not saying Democrats never ever do it, just that it isn't part of their MO like it is in the current Republican party. Let me propose a game. You name a bald-face lie told by the last administration. A bald-face lie is one where the person telling the lie knows its a lie, and knows that the people they saying the lie to knows that it is a…

[flagged]
Post reply on HN