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Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

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Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#261

Post by jeroenhd »

tmtvl wrote: post #253
jeroenhd wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of Arch(-derived) enthusiast circles, I haven't seen systemd-boot used anywhere. It has some really nice tools and features that Grub lacks (i.e. it has tooling for checking the state of things like secure boot and analysing the security risks of your boot configuration), but every mainstream Linux OS I've used still relies on tools like Grub to boot. I have some gripes with systemd-boot's limitations (notabl…

OpenSUSE uses systemd-boot for its GRUB2 BLS implementation ( https://news.opensuse.org/2024/10/08/grub2-bls/ >). It's really awesome because it lets me boot from Btrfs snapshots on a fully LUKS2 argon2id encrypted system.

The argon2id issue remains an annoying problem (AFAIK Grub still doesn't support argon2id), but for tools like Timeshift there are Grub scripts to also boot BTRFS snapshots.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#262

Post by tosti »

jeroenhd wrote: post #215
pjmlp wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have not bothered with Linux if Windows NT had a proper UNIX subsystem. I needed a way to avoid going to campus and fight for a DG/UX terminal. It had nothing to do with FOSS fighting.

> if Windows NT had a proper UNIX subsystem They actually did, but they made the mistake of packaging only the bare basics with it, and hiding it away as much as they could: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX The American government added some obscure law that forced POSIX compatibility on operating systems for certain grants, so Microsoft made their business OS POSIX-compliant. In theory, nothin…

> Win32 became the standard for proprietary software on Linux

This isn't even possible at all. You have software and standards. There's no single set of software nor a single set of standards. Saying something or somesuch is "the" standard is plain false.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#265

Post by veltas »

chucky_z wrote: post #76
procone wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is a bit tongue in cheek, but the systemd hate is so old and tiresome at this point. I need my systems to work. Not once in my career have I experienced a showstopping issue with systemd. I cannot say the same for sysV.

I understand where you’re coming from but early systemd with both ubuntu and centos was a fucking mess. It’s good now but goddamn it was painful and the hate is 100% justified.

Might be good for some, I'm still having issues!

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#266

Post by rusk »

pjmlp wrote: post #187
rusk wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We really are using a 1970s era 1970 Anno Domini no less

Making it even more so of a religion. UNIX is only an OS with some good ideas, and also plenty of bad ones. No reason to stick with it ad eternum as some kind of holy scriptures.

My point was, that there’s plenty of ancient things we plod along with, even though they’re not perfect. Many have tried to improve upon them but few have stuck.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#267

Post by 5o1ecist »

rusk wrote: post #181
oneshtein wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hackers design hacker-friendly systems, which are easy to learn and extend. Corporation$ design ops-friendly systems, which are cheap to operate. We need both.

> We need both Both can devolve into empire building. We need both to be transparent and open.

[flagged]

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#268

Post by rusk »

pjmlp wrote: post #223
fsflover wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are so vague in your attack on Unix approach that it's borderline trolling. What are your problems with it? Modularity and minimalism have been working perfectly and that systemd does not follow them is a bad thing.

There is a book on that, gets posted every now and then on HN. In case you never read it, https://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf Hardly the piece of OS beauty that gets praised about FOSS circles.

I love that book but isn’t it nearly 30 years old?

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#269

Post by donkeybeer »

Gud wrote: post #235
donkeybeer wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's "problem" unfortunately is that it happens to be the only major foss os. If there were other foss oses with good support and "better" models I'd gladly try them out. I know I personally would never switch to any non foss os after the user friendliness I have experienced. I would say that's the main reason many stick to it, including game theoretic arguments for commercial players also. Not because people like to…

What’s suicidal about the BSD license? BSD code is everywhere

Yes and much of it is sealed off and proprietary. The bsd oses got MacOS for all their hard work, a closed off system that they can't read or port back anything from. Someone would say linux or gpl projects also have been fucked over this way. I suppose if your house has been burgled, such a person would argue we must remove all protections rather than add more.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#270

Post by tosti »

LeFantome wrote: post #139
greatgib wrote: post #105

The proof in the end that SystemD is a cancer in the Linux ecosystem. Officially it is just a stack and you can decide to use another one if you don't like it. Unofficially RedHat money ensured that other critical stacks will depend heavily on it so that you can't easily swap without replacing the whole ecosystem.

The whole GNU / Red Hat platform is this way. Try switching out Glibc. You get the same "you have to use all our stuff" dependencies.

Musl mostly works. I had more trouble taking out bash, because of all the random bashisms.
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