Live data from Hacker News

Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

an.dywa.ng

261–270 of 622 posts

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We aren't going to remove the security state What security state? They aren't doing this for anyone's safety. This is the surveillance and parallel construction state. > What needs to happen is accountability. No agency can have this power and remain accountable. Warrants are not an effective tool for managing this. Courts cannot effectively perform oversight after the fact. > The only way to stop the rampant abuse…

You people are so cynical. Its simply made for 911 calls. In the 2G era there was no compute space to just put in extra evil shit for fun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_resource_location_servic...

This line of argument is common. We use the term 'wiretap' because that is what it was, a physical tap on a physical wire and it took a real person there to do it. Even then it took a warrant to approve it. Wiretap laws were written when the technology made abuse extremely hard and were likely appropriate for the time. Now we live in an age where abuse of millions can be done in a single key-stroke and often doesn't require a warrant or oversight of any kind because the technology has changed and evolved to provide loopholes around the laws. The intent was emergency services but the mass use has been anything but. That is the key point and those that have abused this, weather on behalf of the government or for corporate profit, should be held responsible. We should have laws that criminalize breaking the intent of use in ways that harm individuals. You found a technical system rife for abuse and you use it that way? Go to jail. Pay a fine. It is that simple.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#262

"and notify the user when such attempts are made to their device." We aren't going to remove the security state. We should make all attempts to, but it won't happen. What needs to happen is accountability. I should be able to turn off sharing personal information and if someone tries I should be notified and have recourse. This should also be retroactive. If I have turned off sharing and someone finds a technical loo…

For consequences, we need to do away with the notion of qualified immunity. Why should police officers, politicians, agents of the government have any immunity for their actions? They should carry personal liability for breaking the law and violating others’ rights. Otherwise, there is no reason they’ll change. Right now, at best you’ll sue the government and get some money, but all you’re doing is punishing other tax payers.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#263

"and notify the user when such attempts are made to their device." We aren't going to remove the security state. We should make all attempts to, but it won't happen. What needs to happen is accountability. I should be able to turn off sharing personal information and if someone tries I should be notified and have recourse. This should also be retroactive. If I have turned off sharing and someone finds a technical loo…

Don't cheer that any policy be applied to technology you wouldn't want applied to your own brain.

Imagine you get Neuralink and your best friend files for the right to be forgotten. Then poof. All your memories together gone.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#264
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also had phone books with everyone's name and address listed. Everyone was effectively doxxed yet it was never a security issue.

Sure. But we usually didn't need it: We kept the phone numbers for our friends, family, and our favorite pizza place memorized. And if the phone rang, it was answered. It was almost certainly a real person calling; spam calls were infrequent to the point of almost never happening. It was a different time, and it is lost to us now. (We do still have public name-to-address databases, though. For instance: In my state o…

Oh right. Forgot registered voter records are public. Similar to your point about phonebooks, I never use them.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#265

"and notify the user when such attempts are made to their device." We aren't going to remove the security state. We should make all attempts to, but it won't happen. What needs to happen is accountability. I should be able to turn off sharing personal information and if someone tries I should be notified and have recourse. This should also be retroactive. If I have turned off sharing and someone finds a technical loo…

For consequences, we need to do away with the notion of qualified immunity. Why should police officers, politicians, agents of the government have any immunity for their actions? They should carry personal liability for breaking the law and violating others’ rights. Otherwise, there is no reason they’ll change. Right now, at best you’ll sue the government and get some money, but all you’re doing is punishing other ta…

Committing a crime and also abusing your authority to aid in the crime should be greater than the penalty for just committing that crime.

Qualified immunity is the only legal doctrine I can think of where piling on extra crimes reduces your liability.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a virtual number for almost all such signups (only doctors or other safety-related providers), so I'm not sure that would be a possible avenue for these calls, which come to my direct cell phone number. It is not quite a secret, but it is not something I give out to many companies.

They do pattern matching against lots of pieces of information. It could be as simple as a local utility company selling their customer list with phone number and address attached, then a retail website has your address from when you bought something, now your phone number gets linked. It doesn't matter if you don't give your phone number to many companies, it only takes one.

Pretty sure my doctor isn't leaking my phone number. I don't give it to companies.

It's also not clear why I would have an uptick in spam calls when I'm traveling. I get 2x/week at home and 2x/day when traveling.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#267
post #228
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would ask for your source

"Mobile phone (cell phone) microphones can be activated remotely, without any need for physical access" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_listening_device#Remote... And the linked sources are: - Kröger, Jacob Leon; Raschke, Philip (2019). "Is My Phone Listening in? On the Feasibility and Detectability of Mobile Eavesdropping". Data and Applications Security and Privacy XXXIII. Lecture Notes in Computer Science. Vo…

So specific models from before secure operating systems like Android and iOS. Now those operating systems even show an indicator whenever they are recording.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it’s a mentally ill person who is about to kill themself? That’s the majority of uses for the system in the UK. People love to run away and waste police time.

That’s not a good excuse for mass privacy violation.

“A mentally ill person called 911 and said they were going to kill themselves” is a much better justification for pulling GPS data off a phone than any of the rationales I’ve heard from US companies or the government.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely that only happens when the phone user dials 911 ?

The cell network routinely does TDoA triangulation in order to help choose which tower should serve the client mobile device. Accuracy is about 20m, and may be better at 5G frequencies. 911 gets the location from the mobile network provider, but the network provider could provide it to anyone, and they do. Tons of "free" and crapware apps are also recording location, and sending it to data brokers. https://www.wired.…

> Tons of "free" and crapware apps are also recording location, and sending it to data brokers

The last time I checked, that included Google Play Services, and some of their iOS apps.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#270

euhm, well. 112 programmer here. There are multiple levels. Cell tower triangulation come in automatically from providers. But they are only in tower numbers. They might be wrongly entered by engineers, hence the confirming question about where you are. Second is subscription information, as in registered address. Chances are if called from nearby your address, you are at your address. Next is a text to your phone nu…

American carriers have a different protocol than the EU. The EU (and probably EU derived networks) uses a """secret""" SMS format that's opt-in, but the 911 system works differently. The 911 feature can be activated fully remotely, the 112 feature is supposed to only activate when dialing an emergency number.

Wait wait, so if I know the "secret" SMS format I can text someone's phone and get their coordinates back?
Post reply on HN