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Self Driving Car Insurance

lemonade.com

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Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#261

Post by kube-system »

einpoklum wrote: post #198
gizmo686 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking, liability for a thing falls on the owner/operator. That person can sue the manufacturer to recover the damages if they want. At some point, I expect it to become somewhat routine for insurures to pay out, then sue the manufacturer to recover.

Ah, but could one not argue that the owner of the self-driving car is _not_ the operator, and it is the car, or perhaps Tesla, which operates it?

All Tesla vehicles require the person behind the steering wheel to supervise the operations of the vehicle and avoid accidents at all times.

Also, even if a system is fully automated, that doesn’t necessarily legally isolate the person who owns it or set it into motion from liability. Vehicle law would generally need to be updated to change this.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#262

Post by smileysteve »

madsmith wrote: post #195
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> quite skeptical of Tesla's reliability claims I'm sceptical of Robotaxi/Cybercab. I'm less sceptical that FSD, supervised, is safer than fully-manual control.

Having handed over control of my vehicles to FSD many times, I’ve yet to come away from the experience feeling that my vehicle was operating in a safer regime for the general public than within my own control.

Keeping a 1-2 car's length stopping distance is likely over a 50% reduction in at fault damages.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#263

Post by [deleted] »

jasoncartwright wrote: post #13
jgbuddy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the operator is liable? Tesla as a company isn't driving the car, it's a ML model running on something like HW4 on bare metal in the car itself. Would that make the silicon die legally liable?

Sounds like it's neither self-driving, nor autonomous, if I'm on the hook if it goes wrong.

[deleted]

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#264

Post by estearum »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #10

A 50% discount is pretty damning empirical evidence for FSD being better at driving your Tesla than you are.

I'm sure from an underwriting perspective, they could also offer a significant discount for miles driven with LKAS turned on for the same reason they can do it for FSD: you only do it in certain (lower risk) conditions.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#265

Post by parpfish »

panopticon wrote: post #226
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> quite skeptical of Tesla's reliability claims I'm sceptical of Robotaxi/Cybercab. I'm less sceptical that FSD, supervised, is safer than fully-manual control.

Where I live isn't particularly challenging to drive (rural Washington), but I'm constantly disengaging FSD for doing silly and dangerous things. Most notably my driveway meets the road at a blind y intersection, and my Model 3 just blasts out into the road even though you cannot see cross traffic. FSD stresses me out. It's like I'm monitoring a teenager with their learners permit. I can probably count the number tri…

> I'm constantly disengaging FSD for doing silly and dangerous things.

You meant “I disable FSD because it does silly things”

I read “I disable FSD so I can do silly things”

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#266

Post by recursive »

9rx wrote: post #238
recursive wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can actually do that. Except that they could just buy one themselves. Companies exist that buy cars just to tear them down and publish reports on what they find.

> Companies exist that buy cars just to tear them down and publish reports on what they find. What does it mean to tear down software, exactly? Are you thinking of something like decompilation? You can do that, but you're probably not going to learn all that much, and you still can't use it in any meaningful sense as you never bought it in the first place. You only licensed use of it as a consumer (and now that it is…

Check out Munro and Associates. I'm not talking about software. The whole car.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#267

Post by servo_sausage »

tevon wrote: post #151
throw20251220 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally known as AES, for example from BMW available with Active Driving Assistant or Driving Assistant Plus packages.

I have a late model Audi, and a Tesla Model 3. Audi has all the bells and whistles. Doesn't come close to the safety I feel in the Tesla. Not even close. I know anecdotal

Design of these safety features for euro cars generally aims to be invisible unless active. You don't "feel" the car in control.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#269

Post by jdminhbg »

djoldman wrote: post #159
jasoncartwright wrote: post #5

If it autonomous or self-driving then why is the person in the car paying for the insurance? Surely if it's Tesla making the decisions, they need the insurance?

That's probably the future; Mercedes currently does do this in limited form: https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39481699/what-happens-if-...

Not "currently," "used to": https://www.theverge.com/transportation/860935/mercedes-driv...

It was way too limited to be useful to anyone.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#270

Post by benatkin »

microtherion wrote: post #170

I'm quite skeptical of Tesla's reliability claims. But for exactly that reason, I welcome a company like Lemonade betting actual money on those claims. Either way, this is bound to generate some visibility into the actual accident rates.

> betting actual money on those claims

Insurance companies can let marketing influence rates to some degree, with programs that tend to be tacked on after the initial rate is set. This self driving car program sounds an awful lot like safe driver programs like GEICO Clean Driving Record, State Farm Good Driver Discount, and Progressive Safe Driver, Progressive Snapshot, and Allstate Drivewise. The risk assessment seems to be less thorough than the general underwriting process, and to fall within some sort of risk margin, so to me it seems gimmicky and not a true innovation at this point.

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