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I'm returning my Framework 16

yorickpeterse.com

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Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#261

Post by kmeisthax »

kelnos wrote: post #173
trueismywork wrote: post #167

> The Framework 16 weights about 2.2 kg according to my kitchen scale. For comparison, my X1 Carbon weights 1.3 kg. That may not seem like a big difference, but the extra kilogram makes carrying around the Framework 16 more difficult. In particular, I don't feel comfortable carrying it with just one hand while this isn't a problem with the X1. The author wanted a bigger laptop but the straight goes and compares it to…

Yeah I never get this complaint about 16" laptops. Hell, I don't really get 16" laptops at all: they're huge! You're making a very strange trade off: they're only barely portable, and you lose a lot of the power and flexibility you'd get with a desktop.

The majority of 16"+ machines are being made specifically as portable desktops. The target audience is college kids. If you live in a dorm that you have to move in and out of yearly, it is leagues easier to travel with a bulky laptop than even a small form factor desktop machine, because of all the peripherals needed to run it.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#262

Post by cosmic_cheese »

makeitdouble wrote: post #253
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crux of the matter is that even if one values upgradability and repairability, neither is a frequent need for practically anybody. Reliable machines rarely need repairs outside of owner mistreatment, and most people I know who are technically capable enough to care about upgrading generally do it maybe once every 4-6 years, by which point hardware has usually advanced far enough that buying a new laptop is easy t…

> hardware has usually advanced far enough That's not what we're experiencing. Screens have seen improvements, but not in a significant way within these 4-6 years. Keyboards haven't improved leaps and bounds. Track pads either. Laptop casings haven't seen innovation either. The only thing that significantly changes is the motherboard, which is not nothing, but replacing it independently makes sense to me. > port modu…

I’ll contest that on the screens. Mini-LED backlighting is a substantial step up for contrast, backlights in general have gotten brighter, IPS panels have gained notability better color gamuts and contrast, and OLED panels are now widely available even in budget machines. The screens on the M1-M4 MBPs look quite visibly nicer than those MBPs used up until 2019.

Those painfully awful 1366x768 TN panels that used to be commonplace have finally mostly been ousted, too. As a result, chances are that the laptop you buy at nearly any price bracket in 2026 has a screen that’s moderately to dramatically better than was found in laptops in the same bracket up until 2020-2022.

The problems with the port modules are that due to their dimensions, the number of ports you can have on the laptop at once is small and the big voids in the chassis required for them to be able to slot in greatly weakens it and makes it more prone to flexing.

With an alternative design that uses internal port boards (still hooked up via USB-C) with matching exterior side plates, you could easily do something like 3x USB-C, 1x USB-A on the left and 1x Ethernet, 1x USB-C, 1x USB-A, 1x SD/microSD on the right in the same space as would’ve been taken by the modules for half as many ports. This would suit most users perfectly out of the box, precluding the need for swapping for many, but for those who need one side to be full USB-C or multiple NICs or a cell modem or something that’s still possible.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#263

Post by operator-name »

ndiddy wrote: post #4

I dual boot Asahi and Mac OS X on my Macbook Air, and haven't had any problems with suspend. IMO the two biggest problems are lack of USB-C display output (although this is less of a problem with the Macbook Pro since you can use HDMI) and having to deal with x86 emulation (inherent to an ARM laptop). It seems like he's looking for a PC laptop with Apple build quality and display quality, and there definitely aren't…

> a PC laptop with Apple build quality and display quality, and there definitely aren't many options

There’s been a bunch of Windows ARM laptops that aim to directly compete with the M series Macs. Linux compatibility will depend on make on model.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#264

Post by poisonborz »

Rather subjective. I'm really happy with a used "16 gaming laptop, top performance, memory ssd extendable, extremely good display for ~1200€. Build quality is "ok" and creeks a bit, but magnitudes better value than a Thinkpad/Mac, even used ones.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#265

Post by myself248 »

MarsIronPI wrote: post #208
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crux of the matter is that even if one values upgradability and repairability, neither is a frequent need for practically anybody. Reliable machines rarely need repairs outside of owner mistreatment, and most people I know who are technically capable enough to care about upgrading generally do it maybe once every 4-6 years, by which point hardware has usually advanced far enough that buying a new laptop is easy t…

This. My idea of a repairable laptop is the Thinkpads up until around 2015. And I absolutely agree that the port modules forces Framework to limit the number of ports to the point that I'd hesitate to purchase one because I'd be swapping ports all the time.

As the owner of a Framework 13, you're exactly right. It only has 4 ports, at least one of which is pretty much always for charging, and let's face it you will always want a USB-A, so that leaves two. If you want to be ready for HDMI output or SD cards, that occupies them both, better hope you didn't want another USB-A or whatever.

Oh, and there's a permanent headphone jack, for some reason.

Compare to my last Thinkpad (a T460), which had a charger jack, three USB-A, HDMI, RJ45, MiniDP, a headphone jack, and an SD slot. I didn't need to swap adapters because everything was just already there. (I never used the MiniDP or the headphone jack, but everything else, yeah.)

If the Framework had 2 or 3 permanent USB-C's in addition to the 4 swappable ports, or just had 6 or 7 swappable ports, I'd be much happier. But as it sits, carrying a baggie of modules in my backpack is just silly.

That said, it can do something super cool: Charge from either side. Because there are USB-C ports on both the left and right, and any of them can be a power inlet, I'm presently laying on my side in bed, with the charger plugged into the "top" side, i.e. the one that's not leaning into the mattress. When I roll over, I'll just move the cord.

When I was shopping for my "next" (present) machine, I was able to find one Ideapad that claimed it had USB-C ports on both sides, but it was eye-wateringly expensive. I couldn't get Lenovo's site to tell me which cheaper models had this, and their support people couldn't produce such a list either. Finally in frustration, I decided to give my money to Framework instead, and the either-side charging is a trick I rely on frequently.

My current load-out is two USB-C and two USB-A, one of each on each side.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#266

Post by CoastalCoder »

kelnos wrote: post #173
trueismywork wrote: post #167

> The Framework 16 weights about 2.2 kg according to my kitchen scale. For comparison, my X1 Carbon weights 1.3 kg. That may not seem like a big difference, but the extra kilogram makes carrying around the Framework 16 more difficult. In particular, I don't feel comfortable carrying it with just one hand while this isn't a problem with the X1. The author wanted a bigger laptop but the straight goes and compares it to…

Yeah I never get this complaint about 16" laptops. Hell, I don't really get 16" laptops at all: they're huge! You're making a very strange trade off: they're only barely portable, and you lose a lot of the power and flexibility you'd get with a desktop.

My vision gets worse as I age. A larger screen lets me continue working with the same amount of code, etc. as when I was younger with a smaller screen.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#267

Post by ahachete »

YorickPeterse wrote: post #258
ahachete wrote: post #251

I have two Framework 13 DIY, top of the line (Ryzen AI 9 HX 370, 96 GB of RAM, 2TB WD BLACK SN850X). Well, TBH just one, the other one was stolen with less than one month, but that's a different story. Can't be happier with this choice. First of all, now I feel confident I can easily tinker with my laptop, open it and replace any components. No, I'm not repeating their Marketing, I'm truly confident now. Some months…

What's the battery life you're getting out of the Ryzen AI 9?

TBH I haven't deeply tested it yet. Laptop is a few days old and I'm still "automating the install" (Ubuntu autoinstall + Ansible tasks for post-installation including BIOS upgrade and install Nix + Nix and home manager to install everything else; post(s) upcoming), so I haven't done "production use" yet.

Anyway, and while I love long battery life, it's not my main concern. Most of the time I have a power socket available and/or a nice portable battery pack that does the job. Laptop feels so much faster than my X1 Carbon that everything else seems to be a distant second feature.

P.S. Hi, Yorick, again, not the first time we cross paths ;)

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#268

Post by kopirgan »

hakcermani wrote: post #155
comte7092 wrote: post #8

I appreciate the authors thoughtful review here, but I can’t help but be frustrated by the constant lack of understanding of the core value proposition of framework both in this post and in many comments here on hn. Frequently the author brings up that for 2,000 euros they expect a premium experience, but no where is there an evaluation of the value granted by upgradability and repeatability of the machine, and only…

I have a FW13, 3 yrs old, battery was getting weak, i just ordered one from FW and popped out the old one and put in a new one. Same for SSD and memory. This alone makes me stay with FW.

Replacing battery, KB, RAM, SSd in most Elitebook, Latitudes used to be easy. Not anymore atleast with Dell. Most RAM soldered.

But if it lasts 3-4 years I guess many end up upgrading anyway. My Latitude 5330 has everything soldered even the disk but going strong for 3.5 years.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#269

Post by heavyset_go »

Aurornis wrote: post #227
kelnos wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I never get this complaint about 16" laptops. Hell, I don't really get 16" laptops at all: they're huge! You're making a very strange trade off: they're only barely portable, and you lose a lot of the power and flexibility you'd get with a desktop.

> they're only barely portable, Maybe for a very small person or someone who strictly travels light? But I’ve never had any problem with 15” or 16” laptops even while traveling internationally. > and you lose a lot of the power and flexibility you'd get with a desktop This isn’t really true any more unless your desktop is a gaming monster or full of multiple drives or something. I can have a 128GB RAM laptop with ult…

You lose a lot of potential performance that comes with both efficient cooling and maintaining throughput in sustained loads.

Laptops are thermally inefficient and require throttling even with active cooling, meaning mobile chipsets are programmed to emit less heat over time. You might hit advertised boost speeds for a little bit, but you can sustain them on properly cooled desktops.

Then there's the fact that mobile chips are TDP capped at much lower rates than desktops, both to save power and to limit heat.

Theoretically, your mobile chipset has a better $/Wh rate, but you leave some performance on the table compared to desktops.

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