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Ensuring a National Policy Framework for Artificial Intelligence

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Re: Ensuring a National Policy Framework for Artificial Intelligence

#261

Post by roenxi »

Libidinalecon wrote: post #199
hcurtiss wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares? If higher wealth inequality produces a higher standard of living for the majority (note, median not mean), I’m all for it. Policy should not be driven by envy.

You should care because people vote and the social consequences are going to be devastating. It is easy for me to take this perspective too because I never had much student debt or children. The median though is getting crushed if they went to college and are paying for daycare. If you are getting crushed for going to school and having children that is a pretty clear breakdown of the social contract. The consequences…

> The median though is getting crushed if they went to college and are paying for daycare.

> If you are getting crushed for going to school and having children that is a pretty clear breakdown of the social contract.

That isn't a factor in wealth inequality. Inequality is how much money they have relative to people like Musk and Bezos - or just local business owners. The poor side of that comparison always has such little wealth/income that their circumstances don't really matter. Someone poor will be sitting in the +-$100k band and not be particularly creditworthy. When compared to a millionaire the gap is still going to be about a million dollars whether they're on the crushed or non-crushed side of the band.

Part of the reason the economic situation gets so bad is because people keep trying to shift the conversation to inequality instead of talking about what actually matters - living standards and opportunities. And convincing people to value accumulating capital, we're been playing this game for centuries, inter-generational savings could have had a real impact if people focused on being effective about it.

Re: Ensuring a National Policy Framework for Artificial Intelligence

#262

Post by Nasrudith »

Arodex wrote: post #185
dylan604 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about for all perpetuity. If history has shown, anyone that reaches the pinnacle eventually becomes complacent, technology improves by becoming faster/cheaper/smaller. That just means it is prime to always be susceptible to a new something coming along that stands on the shoulders of what came before without having to pay for it. They start where the current leader fought to achieve.

The idea behind self improving AGI is that it will "get" every "new something coming along" before everyone else.

Self-improving AI is a rhetorical sleight of hand to make you think that.

Just because it can self improve doesn't mean it improves better than everything else or without substantial costs to develop improvement.

Re: Ensuring a National Policy Framework for Artificial Intelligence

#263

Post by XenophileJKO »

rubyfan wrote: post #258
XenophileJKO wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like anyone making this argument hasn't studied how those regulations happened. They ALL happened AFTER people got hurt. That's how we do things here. We always have. It's kind of messed up, but the alternative is a bunch of rules on things that wouldn't be a real problem.

It’s a lot harder to put the genie back in the bottle once out. AI is already hurting people. We need regulation to hold it and its benefactors accountable. The federal government is preempting states from doing so. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgerwp7rdlvo https://apnews.com/article/chatbot-ai-lawsuit-suicide-teen-a... https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-teen-confided-in-an-ai-c... https://www.pcmag.com/news/op…

I don't think you realize the level of damage it generally takes to get bipartisan support for creation of an oversight body.

It was popularized that an estimated 8,000 infant deaths attributed to swill milk occured every year in NYC in the 1850s (take with a grain of salt).

Even more recently much of the banking regulation only occured after severe market issues that broadly impacted the economy.

On a related note: "Layoffs" are going to be a hard practical harm point to rally around. Unless we fundamentally change the nature of our economy (Which doesn't tend to happen until the previous system collapses.), effeciency is king. Tha market isn't rational, but effeciency is a competitive advantage that compounds over time. So you have a prisoners dilemma here. If you want to restrict a technology that boosts efficiency, you either have to close your market and then put up rules that constrain efficiency or you bleed your prosperity.

Re: Ensuring a National Policy Framework for Artificial Intelligence

#264

Post by XenophileJKO »

true_religion wrote: post #205
XenophileJKO wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like anyone making this argument hasn't studied how those regulations happened. They ALL happened AFTER people got hurt. That's how we do things here. We always have. It's kind of messed up, but the alternative is a bunch of rules on things that wouldn't be a real problem.

Who got hurt before the US banned the export of cryptography?

That wasn't in the list above. We were talking primarily about consumer/market protections.

Re: Ensuring a National Policy Framework for Artificial Intelligence

#265

Post by Nasrudith »

aw124 wrote: post #214

Question number one. Is dominance really a necessary part of a country's existence? Can't you just have peaceful relations and supportive relationships with other countries to live in harmony, when artificial intelligence brings benefits to all countries, not just the USA? Can't you build on the technological foundations that have been laid to create sustainable development for your society? The desire for more. To h…

Stasis is the quickest way to be 'sustainible' but is a far from ideal outcome. Even if we ignore the squandered potential, take a look at what happened to Japan and others who pursued policies of stagnation for the sake of stability. The lucky ones only got admiral Perry-ied. The unlucky ones were brutally colonized or conquered. The really unlucky ones no longer exist.

States are what can be called superorganisms literally made entirely out of coercion to get others to serve their goals without their consent. Despite the claims of social contract, nobody ever signed one. Asking statew not to seek dominance is like asking a wolf to take up vegetarianism. They technically could do it but it goes fundamentally against its entire design and purpose.

Not to mention that saying no to 'more' isn't kumbaya everyone has peace and freedom. It means active suppression of ambitions of others. States are made of coercion, remember?

Re: Ensuring a National Policy Framework for Artificial Intelligence

#266

Post by sdenton4 »

petcat wrote: post #251
sdenton4 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Sweden is one: https://www.sdg16.plus/policies/universal-childcare-model-sw...

That doesn't look free. Subsidized, yes. Lots of countries subsidize childcare. Including every US state

Sure, but extremely cheap collared with the us.

Here's a UNICEF report comparing childcare policy amongst rich countries: https://www.unicef.org/innocenti/reports/where-do-rich-count...

Sweden ranks third in the comparison metric (what good is free childcare if it is very bad or inaccessible?), and the us ranks 40th out of 41.

Re: Ensuring a National Policy Framework for Artificial Intelligence

#267

Post by SXX »

soulofmischief wrote: post #256
SXX wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whats wrong if US population has voted for this? There was no surprises this time - everyone can expect what is going to happen.

I actually don't want to suffer just because my neighbor is racist.

I'm not saying I support either. I am just looking at US politics from outside. But this is how your democracy system works.

Re: Ensuring a National Policy Framework for Artificial Intelligence

#268

Post by metronomer »

fallingfrog wrote: post #95

As expected, the stupidest imaginable policy. Take all the guardrails completely off, even though the ones that are in place are already toothless. Don't worry, the free market will ensure that everything is turned into paperclips at the maximum possible speed.

Let's hope it doesn't get universal

Re: Ensuring a National Policy Framework for Artificial Intelligence

#269

Post by soulofmischief »

SXX wrote: post #267
soulofmischief wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually don't want to suffer just because my neighbor is racist.

I'm not saying I support either. I am just looking at US politics from outside. But this is how your democracy system works.

You asked, "Whats wrong if US population has voted for this?" in response to someone complaining that the system is not working, and so I explained it: the rest of us are not represented. I'm unsure what point you're getting at.

Re: Ensuring a National Policy Framework for Artificial Intelligence

#270

Post by devmor »

mnky9800n wrote: post #213
devmor wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going back to the Industrial Revolution the United States has been 100% gas pedal all the time on innovation and disruption, which has in turn created millions of jobs that didn't exist before and led to the US running the world's largest economy. Where did you get the idea that this was the cause that created millions of jobs and lead to the US running the world's largest economy, and not say - the knock-on effect…

There is more to history than ww2.

There is more to a discussion than strawmen.
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