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Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental

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Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental

#261
post #245
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What yucky politics?

Probably something silly because we live in the age of polarization and thoughts compressed in 150 character tweets.

Agreed, the vagueposting is indication of ill-intent of the top-level comment. No hyperlinks or specifics, it might as well be a game of mad-libs where you insert your grievance here.

Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental

#262
post #250
post #155

Rust in the kernel feels like a red herring. For fault tolerance and security, wouldn’t it be a superior solution to migrate Linux to a microkernel architecture? That way, drivers and various other components could be isolated in sandboxes.

Microkernel architecture doesn't magically eliminate bugs, it just replaces a subset of kernel panics with app crashes. Bugs will be there, they will keep impacting users, they will need to be fixed. Rust would still help to eliminate those bugs.

I agree it doesn’t magically eliminate bugs, and I don’t think rearchitecting the existing Linux kernel would be a fruitful direction regardless. That said, OS services split out into apps with more limited access can still provide a meaningful security barrier in the event of a crash. As it stands, a full kernel-space RCE is game over for a Linux system.

Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental

#263
post #225

[flagged]

That's not how it works. Once in control, vanguardism defends itself by suppressing all dissent. It does not dissipate. It grows like a virus.

Maybe so. But on the other hand as the community grows and becomes politically diverse, you will stop being afraid of being branded part of political movements that you don’t like just by using a certain programming language, which is… good enough?

Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental

#264
post #46
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before we ask if almost all things old will be rewritten in Rust, we should ask if almost all things new are being written in Rust or other memory-safe languages? Obviously not. When will that happen? 15 years? Maybe it's generational: How long before developers 'born' into to memory-safe languages as serious choices will be substantially in charge of software development?

> Obviously not Is it obvious? I haven't heard of new projects in non-memory-safe languages lately, and I would think they would struggle to attract contributors.

Game development, graphics and VFX industry, AI tooling infrastructure, embedded development, Maker tools like Arduino and ESP32, compiler development.

Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental

#266
post #234
post #225

[flagged]

What yucky politics?

Insane people have decided that Rust is on the "woke" side of the culture war. Reading the phoronix comment section is hilarious because any post about rust devolves into a bunch of boomers whining about "blue-haired woke rust programmers" and other nonsense.

Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental

#268
post #72

Not a system programmer -- at this point, does C hold any significant advantage over Rust? Is it inevitable that everything written in C is going to be gradually converted to safer languages?

Apple handled this problem by adding memory safety to C (Firebloom). It seems unlikely they would throw away that investment and move to Rust. I’m sure lots of other companies don’t want to throw away their existing code, and when they write new code there will always be a desire to draw on prior art.

Also, Swift Embedded came out of the effort to eventually use Swift instead for such use cases at Apple.

Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental

#269
post #175

After all the resistance to Rust in the Linux Kernel, it's finally official. Kudos to the Linux Rust team!

wasn't there like a drive by maintainer rejection of something rust related that kind of disrupted the asahi project ? i can't say i followed the developments much but i do recall it being some of that classic linux kernel on broadway theater. i also wonder if that was a first domino falling of sorts for asahi, i legitimately can't tell if that project lives on anymore

Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems unlikely [Apple] would throw away that investment and move to Rust. Apple has invested in Swift, another high level language with safety guarantees, which happens to have been created under Chris Lattner, otherwise known for creating LLVM. Swift's huge advantage over Rust, for application and system programming is that it supports an ABI [1] which Rust, famously, does not (other than falling back to a C AB…

Swift does not seem suitable for OS development, at least not as much as C or C++.[0] Swift handles by default a lot of memory by using reference counting, as I understand it, which is not always suitable for OS development. [0]: Rust, while no longer officially experimental in the Linux kernel, does not yet have major OSs written purely in it.

What matters is what Apple thinks, and officially it is, to the point it is explicitly written on the documentation.
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