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BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

evclinic.eu

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Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#261
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a fuse. It’s a fuse plus guarantee plus liability.

> It’s a fuse plus guarantee plus liability. This is BMW we're talking about. Their guarantees are worth absolutely nothing if my experience is anything to go by and them accepting liability is not something you should have to pay 4K for if other brands can do the same thing under $100.

I'm sure it depends on market, but I also know 100% that if they will certify the battery as safe, and then you get electrocuted when entering your car because the battery was not safe - they will be on the hook, in all developed markets. No one else, that cares about people safety, do the same thing for under $100. Even Tesla, that almost completely disregards any safety - be it "Full Self Driving" or "let's just change this, without checking if the battery is actually safe", does not do it under $100.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#262
post #227
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 2026 Leaf takes many of the Ariya’s good qualities and one ups them at one of the lowest price points in the industry. Still costs $30k+ USD for base trim. Chinese cars are going for sub-$20k. Few governments want a repeat of the Japanese disruption of US/European car manufacturing, so they were banned before getting the opportunity.

Australia managed to destroy its car industry on its own. The latest BYD Atto 1 is AUD27K including all on-road costs. Tesla 3 base model is AUD60K, BYD Seal base model is AUD50K. You guys are missing out big time by not allowing Chinese cars.

Atto1 is like half size of model 3 tho.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#263

> BMW has over-engineered the They have over-engineered the everything , because that is what BMW does. That is what they have been about for the last thirty years.

They have not over-engineered anything in this case - they have deliberately taken user-hostile actions, going out of the way to prevent repair, and turn cheap repairs into very expensive ones.

- They welded the case: even the engine block that experiences combustion pressures and temps is just bolted together - why?

- They even outdid (pre-R2R) Apple in every aspect - proprietary components, everything put together on the same PCB, with third party replacements impossible, replacement parts locked out cryptographically, and 'anti-theft' (anti-repair) systems installed so even authorized dealers are at a risk of bricking the vehicle - and third party shops can't even repair it.

- They are German so in the EU they are above the law (or more accurately they write the law) - but it'd be nice if us Europeans had their own Louis Rossmans and actionable right to repair laws, and the EU did something beyond bullying foreign tech companies, and applied the same level of scrutiny to domestic ones as well.

This is a comical level of evil - they know that due to the proprietary components (that you can't get at an auto parts store), when these vehicles become 10-15 years old, they will be either uneconomical to repair, with repair costs exceeding the value of the vehicle, no third party parts, no possibility of third-party service - people will resort to stealing these cars to source replacement parts.

So they installed a system that bricks the vehicle should it detect tampering - which might happen if somebody tries to fix their own vehicles.

And let me reiterate, Germans are above the law in the EU - the only reason Dieselgate became a huge scandal is that the US found out about it - please, American friends, could you do another 'gate' about this - its for the good of all.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#264
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a fuse. It’s a fuse plus guarantee plus liability.

> It’s a fuse plus guarantee plus liability. If that was the issue you wouldn't be allowed to change your wheels on the side of the road. They'd be locked down to the car and require a complex software procedure to guarantee they were swapped correctly and won't endanger lives. This is a professional shop raising the issues. They are liable for how the repair is done. BMW is just liable to lose money if people can ea…

Yes, as changing a tire is completely the same tool-and-knowledge level than repairing a EV Battery.

If you would see how EV Clinic "repairs" Tesla batteries, you would not say they have any concern for liability.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#265

The article misses to explain why this is an EU problem, not just a BMW problem. Is the problem described caused by a specific EU regulation (which?) or is mentioning the EU just click bait? (Honest question.)

Who dictates the EU regulation? Hello?

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#266
post #242
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuses are not items that should be replaced normally - they are self-destroying emergency protections for the electrical system. If it is protecting that end users can plug arbitrary loads into, that is one thing - but this doesn’t sound like that? Why did that fuse blow? Because if that is not addressed, it’s likely to just blow again.

This fuse blows because a crash was detected and it is to protect the people inside the car and rescuers. The article argument is that it can blow even for small crashes where no damage to the battery occurs but rehabilitating the vehicle still incurs an outrageous cost. This is not a simple over current protection fuse. $1000 for the module with the fuse seems ok to me. Another $3000 to link the module to the vehicl…

They are not only linking it to the vehicle, they are doing a LOT of other checks on the battery - that it's not damaged in non-obvious ways. For that you need trained people (it's really high voltage and amperage stuff), tooling AND you really need to be sure you guarantee everything is OK.

Even the basic mechanical disconnect and lowering of the battery is far from simple (and requires A LOT more expensive tools than changing a wet belt - not because they are greedy, but because a lift that can lower such hevy battery costs a lot of money, mostly in materials), and that's not even opening it, making sure you don't get electrocuted when you work on it ect.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#267
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. EVs are much simpler than ICE, and PHEV basically have all the complexity of EV+ICE.

PHEVs mean that half the time your using your battery to drag around an ICE, the other half the ICE is dragging around a battery. A very temporary phenomenon in the evolution from ICE to EV.

Your phrasing implies this causes extra weight gain - just to illustrate, the new Prius is about 1.4t (while having decent PHEV range), while the ID4 (a similar sized EV) is 2t.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#268
Right to repair laws should cover this, and / or have a very clear procedure for e.g. consumers and mechanics to report these anti-repairability practices. Even if they're not on purpose (which I doubt, but have no evidence of), the author of this post clearly explains what the problem and what the various hurdles are.

I get that from a safety point of view, certain things should be checked and / or replaced after a crash, especially when volatiles like batteries or fuel tanks are involved. But they shouldn't cost thousands.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#269
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuses are not items that should be replaced normally - they are self-destroying emergency protections for the electrical system. If it is protecting that end users can plug arbitrary loads into, that is one thing - but this doesn’t sound like that? Why did that fuse blow? Because if that is not addressed, it’s likely to just blow again.

Fuses are necessary on any electrical system, and especially in a car, which is an electrical shitshow (floating ground, high-voltage and high-frequency interference), fuses blow all the time. Granted, usually on a well-maintained and new car it happens very rarely, but saying that it's a catastrophic and concerning event is dumb.

This is a pyrofuse, it does not blow with overcurrent as regular fuse, but blows in the same way airbags blow - when detecting a crash. We can debate if they blow too quick, but if you are designing this system - where and truly lives can be in danger, you would probably err on the side of caution too.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#270
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it insane? I'm working in this field, and I know how quickly you can come up with such a number if you are BMW and you are deathly afraid that someone will get electrocuted while working on your car, driving it or rescuing someone in a crash. It's a safety and liability issue, where they go to great lengths to actually re-certify a battery after crash. The whole thing is setup so, that even the dummy electricians…

Yes, it's insane. People working in the field have their perception warped by what they see around them.

I mean, I don't think my perception is warped by what I see. But by "am I willing to risk that my repair will kill someone, because they wanted cheaper repair"? Or even if not kill, maybe just burn down their car (+ house,...). "Am I willing to use cheap tools, not rated for 800V (or 400V) god knows how many Amps?". Because this is not software development - you can be killed REALLY quickly working on a HV EV battery pack. It's no joke. For sure it'll cost more than working on a regular car, where there is danger, but a lot less. And that's just the basic thinking, without going deeper into why its more expensive to repair stuff like this.
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