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Orion 1.0

blog.kagi.com

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Re: Orion 1.0

#261

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

saint_yossarian wrote: post #81
rdg1991 wrote: post #61

I love Orion, but it's pretty unusable with 1Password set up - delay on keyboard input is unbearable with the extension enabled and it slows everything down significantly. I just ran a few benchmarks with BrowserBench Speedometer: 1Password extension disabled: 17 1Password extension enabled: 10 (and the test takes much longer) Vivaldi with extension enabled: 25 I really, really want to move back to Orion as my daily…

Bitwarden just had a similar bug with keyboard lag in their browser extension: https://github.com/bitwarden/clients/issues/17090 I wish browsers offered some kind of autofill extension API so password managers don't have to inject their own bullshit into every page.

On macOS, they do! It's not clear why 1Password and Bitwarden don't utilize it.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/authenticationserv...

Re: Orion 1.0

#262

Post by turnsout »

have_faith wrote: post #16

> Most people switch browsers for one reason: speed. Is that true? Maybe it is and I'm out of the loop but I can't remember the last time someone complained about browser speed. The bottleneck seems to be website bloat more than anything else. Would love to see this argument quantified.

The last time most people changed browsers, it was to Chrome, and it was related to speed. But that was over a decade ago.

Re: Orion 1.0

#263

Post by hombre_fatal »

freehorse wrote: post #251
hombre_fatal wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or seconds to think about it

True. I could probably catch more typos if I had to wait looking at a comment for 2 minutes before finally getting posted.

I wasn't correcting you, it's just how I read it and I realized it worked just as well.

Re: Orion 1.0

#264

Post by filoleg »

yannickburky wrote: post #43
filoleg wrote: post #41

Is there any info with a bit more details on extensions on the desktop version? More specifically, is Orion going to have its own extension ecosystem? Is it compatible with chrome or FF extensions? If it is gonna be its own thing, are there dev docs available anywhere? Asking because I’ve read the article, and I noticed extensions being mentioned a few times (including in one of the subchapter titles). However, I cou…

Orion is compatible with a large number of extensions for Chrome, Firefox, and Safari. Not all of them work, and yes, we plan to offer documentation for creating extensions that are immediately compatible with Orion.

Thank you for the response!

To be clear, I didn't mean for my original comment to be a dig at Orion at all. I am just genuinely excited for it, but an extension ecosystem is something I value a lot in a browser. So I was a little bit miffled, when the original post namedropped extensions, but didn't provide any details beyond that.

However, thanks for clarifying the current state of affairs in terms of extensions, and I am eagerly looking forward to checking out the docs.

Re: Orion 1.0

#265

Post by port11 »

have_faith wrote: post #16

> Most people switch browsers for one reason: speed. Is that true? Maybe it is and I'm out of the loop but I can't remember the last time someone complained about browser speed. The bottleneck seems to be website bloat more than anything else. Would love to see this argument quantified.

Hmm, I did switch to Safari from Firefox because I couldn't put up with how slow everything felt. Ironically I now find Safari quite laggy, whereas Orion or Brave with uBlock make for a better experience. I do agree most people either don't switch browsers or switch to something they heard is good. Maybe Kagi have better intel than us.

(Safari with adblocker, of course.)

Re: Orion 1.0

#267

Post by port11 »

rdg1991 wrote: post #61

I love Orion, but it's pretty unusable with 1Password set up - delay on keyboard input is unbearable with the extension enabled and it slows everything down significantly. I just ran a few benchmarks with BrowserBench Speedometer: 1Password extension disabled: 17 1Password extension enabled: 10 (and the test takes much longer) Vivaldi with extension enabled: 25 I really, really want to move back to Orion as my daily…

I have the same issue, but I also think their extension model is simply not cutting it. I run both Orion and Brave with uBlock, and the Orion experience is basically Safari's pitfalls + a slightly broken extension model.

Then again 1Password itself is problematic, from old bugs to the slowness of it all. I also dislike how their overlay thingie gets on top of everything, even form fields that make no sense. It's a bit pricey for the decrease in quality over time.

Re: Orion 1.0

#268

Post by CharlesW »

burnte wrote: post #182
ofrzeta wrote: post #59

Money quote: "In a world dominated by Chromium, choosing a rendering engine is an act of resistance"

Yeah, except it's pure bullshit. I'm actually a tiny bit irritated they worded it like this because it's insultingly misleading. "From day one, we made the deliberate choice to build Orion on WebKit, the open‑source engine at the heart of Safari and the broader Apple ecosystem." Chromium's Blink is based on Webkit and was for YEARS. While Blink and Webkit had some major differences now, it's not Webkit that's the bet…

> …it's not Webkit that's the better core now.

I'm curious about your definition of "better". It's nice that Google is catching up to Safari on Speedometer benchmarks (Blink was 20% slower a year ago), so at minimum one can appreciate Safari for being the mechanical hare that triggers Google's prey instinct. Bun chose WebKit's JavaScriptCore for performance reasons. Safari's supposedly-poor support for web standards is mostly Google propaganda.

Re: Orion 1.0

#269

Post by [deleted] »

CharlesW wrote: post #268
burnte wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, except it's pure bullshit. I'm actually a tiny bit irritated they worded it like this because it's insultingly misleading. "From day one, we made the deliberate choice to build Orion on WebKit, the open‑source engine at the heart of Safari and the broader Apple ecosystem." Chromium's Blink is based on Webkit and was for YEARS. While Blink and Webkit had some major differences now, it's not Webkit that's the bet…

> …it's not Webkit that's the better core now. I'm curious about your definition of "better". It's nice that Google is catching up to Safari on Speedometer benchmarks (Blink was 20% slower a year ago), so at minimum one can appreciate Safari for being the mechanical hare that triggers Google's prey instinct. Bun chose WebKit's JavaScriptCore for performance reasons. Safari's supposedly-poor support for web standards…

[deleted]

Re: Orion 1.0

#270

Post by bigyabai »

CharlesW wrote: post #268
burnte wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, except it's pure bullshit. I'm actually a tiny bit irritated they worded it like this because it's insultingly misleading. "From day one, we made the deliberate choice to build Orion on WebKit, the open‑source engine at the heart of Safari and the broader Apple ecosystem." Chromium's Blink is based on Webkit and was for YEARS. While Blink and Webkit had some major differences now, it's not Webkit that's the bet…

> …it's not Webkit that's the better core now. I'm curious about your definition of "better". It's nice that Google is catching up to Safari on Speedometer benchmarks (Blink was 20% slower a year ago), so at minimum one can appreciate Safari for being the mechanical hare that triggers Google's prey instinct. Bun chose WebKit's JavaScriptCore for performance reasons. Safari's supposedly-poor support for web standards…

> Safari's supposedly-poor support for web standards is mostly Google propaganda.

I don't think that users "mostly" agree. Safari's market share on macOS craters compared to Chrome: https://radar.cloudflare.com/reports/browser-market-share-20...

Google propaganda or not, Mac owners aren't sticking with this "superior" preeinstalled browser tech. And I get it, as a Linux user I find WebKit intolerable compared with Blink and even Gecko.

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