Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

oldvcr.blogspot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 316 posts

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#261

Post by WalterBright »

Teever wrote: post #215
WalterBright wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's concern that if all our chips come from one country, they could cut the supply off and make demands. That's called an "embargo". It's also done to protect local industries, hence the term "protectionism". For example, Canada's large tariffs on American milk are there to protect the local Canadian milk producers. AFAIK, Trump's tariffs are meant to serve the following purposes: 1. so critical supplies, like ch…

What leads you to believe that the implementation of tariffs under this administration was done for the purposes that you have enumerated? It seems that you're operating under the normally reasonable assumption that these policies were implemented after careful consideration with specific goals in mind. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that the people involved in this are doing what they're doing for well-thou…

> What leads you to believe that the implementation of tariffs under this administration was done for the purposes that you have enumerated?

That's what the administration has stated as the goals of them.

For example, many foreign companies have announced plans to invest in creating factories in the US. How that will eventually work out will take some time to see.

> I don't think it's reasonable to assume that the people involved in this are doing what they're doing for well-thought out reasons or ones that are meant to benefit America.

That's a pretty fantastic assumption. I cannot think of a single instance of any President imposing a policy meant to hurt America. Of course, in my opinion, a lot of Presidents have pushed policies that I regard as destructive, but they didn't mean it to be.

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#262

Post by WalterBright »

esalman wrote: post #247
WalterBright wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've been making the products locally, the tariffs on foreign products help you.

You cannot truly make anything locally these days. We had decades of free trade. It will take decades to roll back. And you will lose all the benefit that came with it. Even if we pretend the policies are well-intentioned, it takes decades of investment to make the infrastructure and workforce ready to produce things locally at scale. With policies like the dismantling of department of education, I do not see any ini…

> With policies like the dismantling of department of education, I do not see any initiative being taken to prepare the workforce for the future.

The DOE was created by Carter, and there is no evidence in the last 45 years of it having any positive effect on education in the US.

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#263

Post by WalterBright »

simonh wrote: post #187
WalterBright wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's concern that if all our chips come from one country, they could cut the supply off and make demands. That's called an "embargo". It's also done to protect local industries, hence the term "protectionism". For example, Canada's large tariffs on American milk are there to protect the local Canadian milk producers. AFAIK, Trump's tariffs are meant to serve the following purposes: 1. so critical supplies, like ch…

They’re not crazy goals, but the way these tariffs are being implemented does not further most of them. 3 and 5 are undermined by the fact that even nations with positive trade surpluses with the US, and countries like Japan with Trump first term negotiated trade treaties (which for Japan included major concessions already) are being hit with these tariffs. 1 and 4 are a problem because many of the inputs into buildi…

> but it’s hard to see how the Tariffs can have a positive effect.

Any change in policy will make things worse before they get better. For example, if you have surgery to remove a tumor, you'll endure a fair amount of pain and misery before getting better.

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#264

Post by AnthonyMouse »

varispeed wrote: post #234
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best solution is antitrust enforcement and removal of anti-competitive laws/rules lobbied for by incumbents. When companies have to compete with each other for labor and customers, wages go up and prices go down. Whey they consolidate they can charge monopoly rents. Unions often even make this worse because they'll latch on to a monopolistic employer and then lobby with them to retain the monopoly at the expense…

> removal of anti-competitive laws/rules lobbied for by incumbents. If even if there are such ideas in new government, they quickly disappear over wine and steak dinners with the lobbyists. Unfortunately this is not seen as bypass of democratic process. Nobody voted for having less rights and any bargaining power stripped and yet here we are. That's where security services should come in (in many countries protection…

Arguing that we shouldn't do something because it's hard to enact is defeatism. When it's the thing you need to do you need to do it anyway. It's not like anything else that would actually work would be easier to pass -- the thing you want is the thing they don't want.

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#265

Post by AnthonyMouse »

bruce511 wrote: post #198
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However the number of people involved has dropped a lot. US manufacturing prefers automation and prefers to manufacture things which are high-volume, low labor. That's fine and indeed about the only way it even can be done in a country with higher wages. The question is, why can't we do more of that? Basic simple components like capacitors should be possible to automate, so what's preventing it? Why don't we have p…

Subsidies are a definite tool, and subsidies are existent in many industries. Lots of farm products for example are subsidized. Of course they encounter their own political hurdles. Think Solar, Electric Cars, CHIPS act etc. But they become political footballs, even to the detriment of local interests. (Witness Florida reps voting to repeal CHIPS even though Florida got a lot of CHIPS money.) So yes, companies want c…

They become political footballs when you do it wrong. If you make a tax credit for solar then it's partisan and the Republicans are going to try to get rid of it. If you make a tax credit for all manufacturing and some companies are using it to manufacture solar and lithium batteries then everybody still wants to keep it because there are also companies using it to manufacture trucks and gas turbines and mining equipment.

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#266

Post by nielsbot »

matwood wrote: post #159
chrneu wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nobody has any idea and you best bet trump is going to hold onto that money until it goes to the supreme court.

They are already making noise that it would be too hard to issue refunds, ie 'can't unscramble an egg'. So even when tariffs get ruled against, refunds may take years to get. People buying tariff refund claims are still only paying ~.25 on the dollar. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wall-street-tariff-trades-sho...

Yup--I linked an article about that in my other comment

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/lutnick-family-angling-...

The corruption is off the charts.

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#267

Post by samtheprogram »

WalterBright wrote: post #262
esalman wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot truly make anything locally these days. We had decades of free trade. It will take decades to roll back. And you will lose all the benefit that came with it. Even if we pretend the policies are well-intentioned, it takes decades of investment to make the infrastructure and workforce ready to produce things locally at scale. With policies like the dismantling of department of education, I do not see any ini…

> With policies like the dismantling of department of education, I do not see any initiative being taken to prepare the workforce for the future. The DOE was created by Carter, and there is no evidence in the last 45 years of it having any positive effect on education in the US.

Indeed, it's directly contributed to burgeoning administrative costs in universities through the Federal Student Loan program, and related the devaluing of college degrees.

It's probably helped in some aspects too, but the student debt crisis was created by the DOE. And most everyone can agree that college costs have ballooned in the US while the value of the degrees have decreased.

It's a perfect example of the worst of both worlds of government guarantees in a capitalist society, like Amtrak and US health care. It eliminates many aspects of competition and blurs incentives while remaining in a economy where decisions are profit-driven.

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#268

Post by ls612 »

clcaev wrote: post #253
zahlman wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They use interest rates to protect against inflationary (and deflationary) spirals, which are known to be devastating. The effect on the unemployment rate is a known, and predictable, side effect. But formal unemployment is small compared to labour force dropout anyway, and the latter is not necessarily so sensitive to economic conditions anyway. Besides which, the unemployment rate can't really keep going down forev…

Yet the average household seems weaker now than 16 years ago. Perhaps policy guided by this metric could use rethinking.

The median household income is higher today in real terms than it was in 2008.

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#269

Post by iancmceachern »

WalterBright wrote: post #178
iancmceachern wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the great misconceptions. There are often no "native" alternatives. Even the machines that make the chips are nearly all made in one country and then shipped around the world. The amazing, modern nature of our modern world is built on the collective effort and knowledge of humankind globally. Globally.

There's concern that if all our chips come from one country, they could cut the supply off and make demands. That's called an "embargo". It's also done to protect local industries, hence the term "protectionism". For example, Canada's large tariffs on American milk are there to protect the local Canadian milk producers. AFAIK, Trump's tariffs are meant to serve the following purposes: 1. so critical supplies, like ch…

There is no way Taiwan would ever embargo the US re:chips.

Making and shipping chips all over the world is what keeps Taiwan safe. They would never jeopardize that.

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#270

Post by oliwary »

rootusrootus wrote: post #255
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The best time to manufacture vintage computer parts is 28 years ago, but the second-best time is today! :p What was so special about 1997?

Not GP, but I would just like to say that while every time period has good and bad, 1997 was pretty damn great in the grand scheme of things. Not just that year, but the 90s in general. If I could pick a decade to live in and never leave...

Interesting that the Matrix picked the 90s as it's world to lock humanity into as well... Prescient?
Post reply on HN