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My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

sashachapin.substack.com

261–270 of 444 posts

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think slapping neurodivergent on everything kind of dilutes the word. I had some social challenges growing up, probably still a weird cookie at times, but def would not consider myself neurodivergent, it just feels like a different league of difference to the norm.

But that's the entire point of the term neurodivergence. Rather than categorizing people into specific pathologies, you acknowledge that every spectrum of human behavior is just that: a spectrum. And that means that some people will be outliers on any given axis. For example, the author of this piece is clearly on the autism spectrum. Of course, everybody is on the autism spectrum, even people who show no symptoms (t…

> Of course, everybody is on the autism spectrum, even people who show no symptoms (they are on the left hand side).

No, that's not at all how any of this works. People who don't have ASD aren't on the autism spectrum because the spectrum isn't an intensity meter where one end is neurotypical and the other end is non-verbally autistic with 24/7 support requirements.

It's called a spectrum disorder because every autistic person experiences different divergences/impairments to varying degrees of severity. Some people can have intense sensory issues but socially pass as neurotypical, others can have minimal sensory issues but really severe social issues.

The DSM used to exclude people who were clearly autistic but didn't align with any of the rigid definitions that were captured in the DSM as distinct diagnosis, that's why it was eventually recognized as a spectrum disorder.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#262
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

[dead]

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They call that too: > There are two reactions that one could have to the previous section. “Wow, that’s cool, how he developed the ability to create a lot of deep connections in this lonely world.” And: “that is a weird and creepy thing to want, sounds kind of vampiric.” I believe that both reactions are correct in some proportion. > Here is the thing about going around the world in a state of emotional openness and…

> This post actually kind of blows my mind. I suggest re-reading it from some different perspectives. Consider that the narrator may not be entirely reliable. They way they talk about being able to read other people and manipulate them into a sense of openness and connection has some hints of behaviors that are associated with people who view themselves as superior to others and view others as mere targets for their…

So an emotional quine?

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#264
post #52

> The other day, someone told me, “I can’t imagine you ever being awkward with people.” I was telling my therapist of several years recently about being uncomfortable with the number of new people I've had to meet recently. He seemed surprised that I wasn't excited by it all and said something along the lines of "You seem like a very social person, that seems out of character." It struck me… am I really that good at…

Oh boy do I ever relate to that - “You seem like a very social person, that seems out of character” - I know that’s how I seem, but god almighty do I not feel that way.

I’ve learned that’s its best if I play the role of a social person, but it’s just playing a role.

I don’t think anyone but a handful of my closest loved ones really grasp how very close I have always been to running away to live as a hermit in a cabin in the woods.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#265
Maybe I am cynical or a jerk but I don't like most people. A few people I genuinely dislike, most people I am not interested in and a few people I like.

I don't feel the need to build rapport or have close relations with all people. Either we genuinely click or we don't and it's fine for me anyway.

I trust myself enough and I don't crave the approval of others, I don't crave affection.

That being said, for work, in professional circles, with some aquitances, etc. I need to build good rapport and build trust fast, to the point that we build a good relation but not to the point we are friends. And it seems quite easy: be a good listener, echo their opinions, voice their unspoken concerns, summarize their opinions, be appreciative, repeat some key words from what they are saying, be appreciative, don't be judgemental, be genuinely friendly, tell jokes, look them in the eyes, smile, mind your body language and a few others.

When coming in a new workplace, there are people who still didn't integrate well or get along with other people well, even if they work ed there for a few years. There are people that need years to build a relationship with others. But for me, in a few months more people see me like I worked there since ages. I just signal to people that their ideas are mine, too, that we are very much alike.

People are set up to trust other people because that is the easiest way and takes the least effort. If you help them trust you and like you, they will.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This post actually kind of blows my mind. I suggest re-reading it from some different perspectives. Consider that the narrator may not be entirely reliable. They way they talk about being able to read other people and manipulate them into a sense of openness and connection has some hints of behaviors that are associated with people who view themselves as superior to others and view others as mere targets for their…

It's stages in their life and it goes from manipulation to letting go. Even the manipulation was not malicious -- they just wanted to have "better" experiences with other people (and maybe upsell an entrée at first). And as a socially awkward individual I found it quite interesting.

Yes. He literally started his journey as being the most bullied kid in school. His intention was mainly to be accepted.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#267

This post wasn't what I was expecting from the "socially normal" title. While there is a lot of self-reflection and growth in this piece, a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Look at the first two subheadings: > 1: Connecting with people is about being a dazzling person > 2: Connecting with people is about playing their game The post felt like a rollercoa…

I mean technically it isn't wrong that (1) how you come across to the other person is important and (2) you need to be with the other person to connect with them.

And that is part of the problem, because the underlying reason why people connect when you do the mentioned things is that these are usually signs that you are in fact an empathic person, that can put themselves in their shoes and thus care to some degree about how things will pan out for them, meaning they may think they can open up to you, etc. This is in a stark contrast with the phrasing of "playing their game" that frames this type of behavior as a superfluous, silly endavour, when in fact it might be the polar opposite:

In a society of social apes (humans) one of the biggest danger to your and your kins life, bodily autonomy, freedom has historically always been other humans. Meaning that judging the intentions of others is not some silly game, but a survival mechanism of existential importance. And not only that, many people derive a lot of ehat makes their lifes worth living from these feelings of mutual understanding and empathy.

So to most empathic people the idea that a seemingly empathic person could feel nothing at all underneath and potentially sell them down the river is something tingling a gutural fear. Many media depiction of evil serial killers will play on that exact fear (among others).

Master conmen, manipulators, cult leaders (so generally horrible people) are all good at understanding the internal processes (thoughts and feelings) of their victims. This understanding is also essential for true empathy, the way it is applied is very different. If a hacker finds a weak point in a system they can exploit it for their own gain, or they can deal with it in a way benifiting all. The skill of understanding the internals is one thing, the skill of understanding what these internals mean and what are the right actions to derive from that knowledge is something else entirely.

That being said, I think the personal journey the author is on is certainly one that may benefit both them and the people around them. I can just imagine how hard parsing all the complexity of human behavior must be if you can't feel it yourself. This is already hard for people who can, as countless cultural artifacts from all of humanities history proof.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of normal people may routinely act charming and game social interactions, but they generally aren't being "manipulative" in the process. "Manipulation" is really just a polite word for routinely lying and BS'ing people on the off-chance that they are going to be fooled and/or not want to call you out on it. If you're reasonably socially skilled, you can usually see it coming a mile away and react accordingly, b…

What about intentionally making conscious effort to remember to use people's names when talking to them? And other similar things that increase someone's odds of being liked or convincing or getting someone to do what they want more likely? Doing those things is not BSing, not lying, yet people can consciously be doing those to increase the likelihood of getting what they want. Many people will obviously do it natura…

Do you really think you're the only person who's heard of that "technique"?

When someone uses my name in conversation, it makes me think less of them, because it's so unnatural and clearly they might be doing it to manipulate me.

Names are dumb - we are people, not labels

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#269
post #76
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all in the preamble before the later sections of learning and my implicit point was that my social awkwardness got better when I stopped trying to show off how smart I am. It still comes out occasionally, and I don't try to be condescending, so I do really appreciate my close friends when they give me feedback when I am. My other point though is that as people using AI to generate content take the time to tell C…

Trying to show off how smart one is is probably part of the motivation behind many interesting comments posted on here, and more generally, a big motivation behind a huge number of the useful things people do. Doing it in a non-obvious way requires additional ingenuity. The cumulative effect of people trying to show off how smart they are has undoubtedly greatly accelerated the development of our species.

For better or worse, it was probably the main driver. Since time immemorial, people have been competing for mates and resources in a social hierarchy.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#270
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's stages in their life and it goes from manipulation to letting go. Even the manipulation was not malicious -- they just wanted to have "better" experiences with other people (and maybe upsell an entrée at first). And as a socially awkward individual I found it quite interesting.

Yes. He literally started his journey as being the most bullied kid in school. His intention was mainly to be accepted.

No it was to learn the biggest bully tricks to become the best bully
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