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US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

thedailybeast.com

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Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#261

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

mothballed wrote: post #4

It's wild ATC isn't funded by use fees instead of being appropriated by congress. Seems like a good opportunity to provide some mechanism so the government has to shit or get off the pot, because if the government won't do the job the airlines would surely be glad to pay for the service themselves.

It seems logical that the government should have a lot of control over preventing air disasters. If we allow air traffic control to be turned over to the lowest bidder, then we can expect a lot more incidents, especially at smaller airports that don't attract a lot of traffic.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#262

Post by dangus »

xethos wrote: post #221
dangus wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mike Johnson has been speaker for long enough so that the average follower of politics probably forgets the fiasco behind his selection. He’s really not a very skilled politician at all. And of course, Trump is beyond deep fried, he’s a full blown dementia patient. He has no ability to navigate Congress. He even gave away his party’s leverage by fighting against SNAP payments, giving Democrats no reason to back down.…

Without being in favour of it, this is one reason politicians are old. Not necessarily twenty years past typical retirement, but those relationships that were so useful to Biden were built over decades. Getting elected at 40 doesn't mean you also have the history with others in government to actully get things done. Good faith could be assumed in some other countries, and those relationships could, subsuquently, be l…

I think it’s both relationships and being legitimately good at what you do.

Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi were in their prime extremely shrewd strategic leaders.

Someone like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez started off young and somewhat isolated but has quickly turned into someone who is one of the most important leaders of the party before age 40.

The impression I get is that Mike Johnson was not picked for his skills or connections, but because he was someone who his party’s factions didn’t have an existing hate relationship with.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#263

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

mrtksn wrote: post #243
rainsford wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really ATC specific, but at some point most people in most jobs can't deal with indefinitely not getting paid and will have to go do something else even if they don't have a good backup plan. Working retail, driving for Uber, etc, all have vastly better ROI at the moment than working ATC getting a $0 paycheck. In theory they'll get backpay and have better future earnings prospects than leaving for an uncertain ca…

If they are allowed at work when they are not being paid, why don’t the airlines create a fund where they just pay them something so they can survive the shut down? IIRC the shutdown isn’t happening that often, they probably can just put money in it and use it when needed

Alternatively, why doesn't the government have an emergency fund for use to cover essential personnel/food etc during shutdowns?

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#264

Post by forinti »

nakamoto_damacy wrote: post #114

Elon Musk will step in to save the day and privatize air traffic control. The government will transform the nation into a fully decentralized economy owned and operated by oligarchs, with the role of the government shrinking to that of a mediator between the various oligarchs, and employed directly by the oligarchs. Kind of like how they describe it in the sci-fi show Alien Earth.

This thought gives me Back to the Future II vibes. Trump even reminds me of Biff.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#265

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

pwthornton wrote: post #104
philipwhiuk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bear in mind you need radar coverage for overflight even if you don't land.

This is true, but do we have a need for random airports in sparse parts of the country that require government subsidies?

There's more of a need to not have planes hit each other and cover areas with wreckage.

I can just imagine the hilarity if air-space was sold off to the highest bidder and then some of the smaller airports may decide to host advertising blimps in their share of the airspace and then charge plane companies extra to navigate around them.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#266

Post by jacquesm »

koolba wrote: post #257
jacquesm wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think that after more than half a year of outright destruction of your country you'd stop digging. Indeed, elections have consequences, so why are you so upset with the democrats? Aren't you going to fix things now? This is your finest hour, and it will be remembered for a long time, how you acted and what drove you to keep on digging that hole when it was abundantly clear that the path chosen wasn't working at…

> Indeed, elections have consequences, so why are you so upset with the democrats? Aren't you going to fix things now? The destruction I see is being done by the unreasonable Democrat Senators holding hostage hungry children and Federal workforce. > This is your finest hour, and it will be remembered for a long time, how you acted and what drove you to keep on digging that hole when it was abundantly clear that the p…

> The destruction I see is being done by the unreasonable Democrat Senators holding hostage hungry children and Federal workforce.

Consider me amazed.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#267

Post by HPsquared »

throw0101a wrote: post #260
HPsquared wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's probably better anyway. Air fares should cover the costs of flying. It's already a very profitable activity: it's much more efficient than the alternatives, and flying provides much value to passengers. So why can't the industry fund itself?

> […] it's much more efficient than the alternatives […] Efficiency by what metric? Energy per distance travelled? Energy per kilogram moved (per kilometer?)? Time? CO2 emissions? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_transport * https://ourworldindata.org/travel-carbon-footprint For distances 900km planes are, but in between trains are often quickest (assuming infrastructure is actually present).

Human hours (as in total hours, including work hours) per passenger-mile.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#268

Post by an0malous »

fzeroracer wrote: post #72
an0malous wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE is being paid

ICE is effectively just a government-paid gang designed to harass immigrants and any citizen they think is a bit too uppity. They don't have any actual power to do things like holding down a city or enforcing martial law without the aid of the actual military or national guard. They have guns but not THE guns.

They raided a building in Chicago with a Blackhawk helicopter

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#269

Post by tomhow »

rhetocj23 wrote: post #183
slg wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this line of thinking has any merit. Genocides have happened before and yet modern genocides still make me sad for humanity and I wish we did a better job preventing them.

[flagged]

> Boo hoo they make you sad

We've banned this account for repeatedly posting abusive comments and ignoring our requests to stop. If you don't want to be banned, you can email us at hn@ycombinator.com and demonstrate a sincere commitment to observing the guidelines and using the site as intended.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#270

Post by rainsford »

mcphage wrote: post #239
rainsford wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it's existential for both Democrats and Republicans. Given the current makeup of the federal government, Republicans basically have all the power and have been able to leverage that into spending the last 10 months doing whatever they want. The exception to that power is the Democrats' ability to filibuster in the Senate and shut down the government by not agreeing to whatever the Republicans put…

> The problem is that it's existential for both Democrats and Republicans. > If Republicans give up anything to the Democrats, the spell of the last 10 months is broken and Republicans can no longer unilaterally control the direction of government. How is that in any way shape or form “existential”? Existential means “if they fail they cease to exist or matter”, not “if they fail they don’t get to whatever the fuck t…

Yeah I did think about that after I made the post. I agree that you and jaybrendansmith are probably right in that it should be a bigger deal for the Democrats than the Republicans. I'm not sure Congressional Republicans see it that way though and I was thinking more about how they view the standoff, since that's important in seeing how or if there is a path towards ending the shutdown.

They've made a pretty unprecedented bet on unilateral party-line action and the legislative branch significantly deferring to the executive. I'm sure they're concerned about what the party looks like trying to transition back to a more normal way of doing business, especially given what their voters are now primed to expect. I agree this should not be existential, but I also don't understand congressional Republicans putting themselves in this situation in the first place, so clearly I'm not looking at the situation the same way they are.

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