261–270 of 442 posts
Four independent Chinese companies released extremely good open source models in the past few months (DeepSeek, Qwen/Alibaba, Kimi/Moonshot, GLM/Z.ai). No American or European companies are doing that, including titans like Meta. What gives?
Kimi K2 Thinking, MiniMax M2 Interleaved Thinking: open models are reaching, or have reached, frontier territory. We now have GPT and Claude Sonnet capable at home, as they are open-weight. Around this time last year, we had the DeepSeek moment, Now is the time for another moment.
As a Chinese user, I can say that many people use Kimi, even though I personally don’t use it much. China’s open-source strategy has many significant effects—not only because it aligns with the spirit of open source. For domestic Chinese companies, it also prevents startups from making reckless investments to develop mediocre models. Instead, everyone is pushed to start from a relatively high baseline. Of course, man…
There’s a lot of indications that we’re currently brute forcing these models. There’s honestly not a reason they have to be 1T parameters and cost an insane amount to train and run on inference. What we’re going to see is as energy becomes a problem; they’ll simply shift to more effective and efficient architectures on both physical hardware and model design. I suspect they can also simply charge more for the service…
It might only stop once the electricity problem becomes truly unsustainable. Of course, I don’t fully understand the specific situation in the U.S., but I even feel that one day they might flee the U.S. altogether and move to the Middle East to secure resources.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I must be missing something important here. How do the Chinese train these models if they don't have access to the GPUs to train them?
> How do the Chinese train these models if they don't have access to the GPUs to train them? they may be taking some western models: llama, chatgpt-oss, gemma, mistral, etc, and do postraining, which required way less resources.
Is the price here correct? https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k2-thinking Would be $0,60 for input and $2,50 for 1 million output tokens. If the model is really that good it's 4x cheaper than comparable models. It's hosted at a loss or the others have a huge margin? I might miss something here. Would love some expert opinion :) FYI: the non thinking variant has the same price.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> How do the Chinese train these models if they don't have access to the GPUs to train them? they may be taking some western models: llama, chatgpt-oss, gemma, mistral, etc, and do postraining, which required way less resources.
What 1T parameter base model have you seen from any of those labs?
"Where p is the pdf of a random variable sampled by the given procedure"
That was in the first expanded section when it discussed the PhD level math problem it solved.
I'm not a Phd nor a Pdf but it seemed strange to me.
While I absolutely support these open source models, there is an interesting angle to consider... If I were a Chinese partisan looking to inflict a devastating blow to the US, taking the AI hype wind out of American tech valuation sails would seem a great option. How best to do this? Release highly performant models... For free! Extremely efficient in terms of RMB spent vs (unrealized) USD lost. But surely, these mod…
Is this a typo: "Where p is the pdf of a random variable sampled by the given procedure" That was in the first expanded section when it discussed the PhD level math problem it solved. I'm not a Phd nor a Pdf but it seemed strange to me.