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End of Japanese community

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Re: End of Japanese community

#261

Post by rtpg »

moonlet wrote: post #189
rtpg wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

long and slow consensus building that weighs existing stakeholder's opinions heavily vs doing "the right thing" from the outset. So you move slowly and end up having very annoying conversations and compromises instead of just pushing something through. And the formal process is just a formality anyways, so then anyone not in the informal chatter just gets to experience the capriciousness anyways The sort of consensus…

Who cares if they’re wrong? The point is respect for their opinions and feelings since you’ll have to work with them for twenty years. If you respect them, you get to do what you want to do and they won’t fuck with you or shoot down your proposal. To be clear this is Japan we’re talking about with the twenty years part. The same thing applies in the US but on smaller timescales though. If people feel appreciated and…

To be clear I'm describing a point of view, but not always ascribing to it.

I tend to lean towards thinking backchanneling makes sense as a general vibe, if only because it's a way of doing things that lets people have dignity, and the costs _can be_ low.

Re: End of Japanese community

#262

Post by Blikkentrekker »

kaveh_h wrote: post #17

Some people do these type of contribution or charity work not just to do some good but also to feel some autonomy and mastery in a world were much of the regular top down driven drudgery work does not provide much of that feeling. These people are canaries in the coal mine. I expect more people feel a loss of purpose and rise of anxiety and depression in the world.

Which I feel honestly in part explains why so many prominent figures in Free software development seem to have some mental issues to be honest. They in a way remind me of that person who at one point was responsible for over half of all edits on the Scots Wikipedia.

Even the paid professionals often started to work for free and then were hired by some company and the reality is that someone who is good at something and willing to do it for free is either a very good Samaritan, or there is some other issue at stake and in the end prominent free software figures often have fairly heated public keyboard wars over things with each other and most of all seem strangely fiercely loyal tribalists who suffer from an extreme case of n.i.h.-syndrome.

Re: End of Japanese community

#263

Post by rtpg »

ivell wrote: post #245
rtpg wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah sure, I feel like back channeling stuff is generally just the respectful thing to do, so I'm not on the side of the debate I'm expanding upon in most cases. Just that lacking context one really can't make that many blanket statements.

Not only respectful. Also it ensures that all different aspects of a decision is considered before making the decision. If not aligned with all parties, we would miss important flaws in the plan. It is just a sensible thing to do.

> If not aligned with all parties, we would miss important flaws in the plan.

I think the difficult cases come when people's interests aren't aligned. If you're coordinating with a vendor to basically detangle yourself from their vendor-specific tooling to be able to move away from them, at some level it doesn't really make sense to read them in on that.

There are degrees to this, and I think you can argue both sides here (so ultimately it's a question of what you want to do), but parties are rarely neutral. So the tough discussions come from ones where one party is going to be losing out on something.

Re: End of Japanese community

#264

Post by djantje »

danieltanfh95 wrote: post #251

It's funny how Japanese contributors often go nuclear whenever things don't go their way instead of communicating etc. Bugs happen. this is tech. open communication is always the way to go before escalation. we see the same phenomenon in git, ruby etc etc etc. Ironically, Japanese work culture encourages over-communication. It seems that open-source is considered a counter-culture that they want to escape japanese wo…

Yes, lets dismiss Japanese culture..

Re: End of Japanese community

#265

Post by littlestymaar »

pseudalopex wrote: post #24
sitharus wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those would be the guidelines that all translation contributors are expected to follow, which are given to all prospective translators. It sounds like Mozilla just turned on the machine without consulting the human translators to see if the machine actually worked in a useful manner.

> It sounds like Mozilla just turned on the machine without consulting the human translators to see if the machine actually worked in a useful manner. Yes. And someone should make a real apology. But learning what the machine did wrong is part of fixing a machine.

What, you mean that US companies should ask their local branches before pushing changes in every countries? /s

This happens all the time, in every US company I know. It's as if the Americans where entirely oblivious to the fact that the rest of the world exists.

Re: End of Japanese community

#266

Post by exe34 »

op00to wrote: post #15
sitharus wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those would be the guidelines that all translation contributors are expected to follow, which are given to all prospective translators. It sounds like Mozilla just turned on the machine without consulting the human translators to see if the machine actually worked in a useful manner.

Specifically which guidelines? Not a URL. Not hand wavey “oh you know the guidelines”. A text list of the guidelines that are not followed.

It might be more helpful to point out which guidelines it did follow. Humans are expected to read and obey these things - so presumably whoever deployed them will be aware and can demonstrate that they were followed.

Re: End of Japanese community

#267

Post by nilslindemann »

nozilla wrote: post #252

> Hi Marsf, > I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. > My timezone is UTC+7, so it should be easier for us to set up time. Let me know how that sound! What a horribly condescending and patronising resp…

I just read someone asking someone else for a phone call.

Re: End of Japanese community

#268

Post by exe34 »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #78
crazygringo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you're being downvoted, you're exactly right. The person replying is probably not an expert in this. But they want to get more details so they can figure out how to get it to the right people with more information. This is how it's supposed to work.

* * *

> Same reason people here are taking "let's jump on a call" as some personal attack. Some people just like drama.

No, some of us can see into the future, because it flows from the past. When management shits on 20 years of work and breaks everything after not listening to your warnings, they don't suddenly start listening and understanding out of nowhere.

Re: End of Japanese community

#269

Post by exe34 »

krick wrote: post #50
ares623 wrote: post #3

This is rich > We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. The post literally starts with a list of grievances. Maybe ask the AI for an executive summary and the key points.

[flagged]

Revert the changes and then hop on a call to figure out how to do it right next time.

"Explain what's wrong and how to fix it" is the wrong approach. if you need it explained to you what was broken, then you're not the expert here, just the local tinpot dictator.

Re: End of Japanese community

#270

Post by trenchpilgrim »

ngruhn wrote: post #242
badgersnake wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Firefox is a good browser Increasingly it isn’t. It’s crashing 2 or 3 times a day for me now, and video conferencing is barely usable.

Hasn't crashed for me once and I use it daily.

Been crashing for me and friends for about a week now, mostly on youtube
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