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UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

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Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#261

Post by cjrp »

noer wrote: post #211
akerl_ wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(asked earnestly out of lack of familiarity with this field) Are maintenance/certification standards distinct between passenger and cargo carriers? It's hard for me to tell if this suggests a step backwards in application of the reforms instigated after AA191 or that those reforms were never copied over to cargo aviation.

Yes but mostly related to purpose specific things: passenger carriers have additional safety checks for cabin things like seats, oxygen and evacuation systems. Cargo carriers have additional safety checks for things like cargo restraint and decompression systems. Furthermore (and I don't know if this is related to the cause of this crash), cargo jets tend to be older/refurbished passenger planes that have outlived th…

> cargo jets tend to be older/refurbished passenger planes that have outlived their useful lives flying passengers.

Exactly what happened in this case; the airplane was built in 1991 to carry passengers, and then converted in 2006 for freight.

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/mcdonnell-douglas-md-...

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#262

Post by panxyh »

akerl_ wrote: post #241
panxyh wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I’d recommend giving your own goodwill in the future instead of accusing commenters and then asking for goodwill in response.

I did. By apologising and making a question, not accusation.

The commenter himself didn't seem hurt by it.

I'd recommend raising your outrage threshold. I clearly am keeping this light hearted, while you go into fight mode because you saw the word "offence". Loosen up a bit :)

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#263

Post by loeg »

hshdhdhehd wrote: post #97
loeg wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably also worth pointing out that flying is only safer for Part 121 operators (airlines) -- private jets, sightseeing helicopters, skydiving operators, and general aviation are all more dangerous.

Is cargo in part 121?

UPS is, yeah.

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#264

Post by loeg »

giantrobot wrote: post #122
loeg wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but multiengine aircraft are designed to take off with one lost engine.

There was more of an issue than just an engine being out. It looks like catastrophic damage to at least the left wing. So you have to now assume an engine out, reduced lift (if not a stall) on one wing, and likely no control surfaces responding on that wing.

I think this conversation has become completely divorced from my original criticism of OP's comment, which is that we don't know what the pilots knew before V1, at V1, after V1.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45818462

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#265

Post by vel0city »

Retric wrote: post #184
potato3732842 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always come up with some pretext to justify things by ignoring the other side of the equation. How many lives do the man hours spent commuting, or toiling away to afford higher rents waste? IDK how the math pencils out, but an attempt ought to be made before drawing conclusions.

None? Nobody puts airports inside city centers and metro areas don’t just have dense urban housing. The common solution in many land strapped cities is for airports to rout aircraft over water often by building airports on reclaimed land. What generally gets areas in trouble is locations that used to be a good get worse as aircraft get larger and the surroundings get built up. The solution is to send larger airplanes…

> Nobody puts airports inside city centers and metro areas don’t just have dense urban housing

Ever see Dallas Love Field?

https://maps.app.goo.gl/A94EdexYwfpyeMxa7

Lots of airports are pretty much immediately adjacent to their city centers.

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#266

Post by amelius »

fullstop wrote: post #186
amelius wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also put the fire department right next to it. Or some kind of automated extinguisher.

There was a young girl who survived the crash of Asiana flight 214, but was run over by a firetruck because she was covered in extinguisher foam.

> Later investigations concluded that Ye was already dead from severe injuries caused by being ejected from the aircraft.

from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#267

Post by dxdm »

panxyh wrote: post #232
akerl_ wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an intensely rude thing to say to someone who has been providing specialist knowledge in a very deep technical field up and down this page.

[flagged]

Finding oneself with the need to apologize in advance is an excellent hint to examine extra hard if you really should do what you're apologizing for. Apologizing when necessary is good, not having to apologize is much better.

It's a great level-up for characters of most alignments.

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#268

Post by mrguyorama »

rkomorn wrote: post #254
mschuster91 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you saying higher prices would lead to better safety? Higher prices and regulations . With no floor on pricing, there will always be enough greedy executives who are willing to cut corners to make money in a ruthlessly competitive environment, fully knowing that it is very hard to prosecute a C-level executive personally. The other possible result will be that eventually the market "agrees upon" a minimum price…

I kiiinda see where you're coming from but I guess I just don't buy it, TBH. I think greed is what's causing cut corners. You mention Boeing, and they were quite healthily profitable during the entire time they were cutting corners on the 737 MAX. Airbus wasn't an existential threat. It still isn't, in fact, even after all the fallout.

Okay, what possible fix for everpresent greed in US business management is there other than regulation and enforcement?

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#269

Post by Retric »

jonas21 wrote: post #257
Retric wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s roughly a mile of roads, green spaces, and river between the airport and downtown San Jose which an absolutely identical accident would impact. It’s not very wide, but pilots aren’t going to aim for buildings if they can help it. So while downtown being in the flight path is a risk there was some method to the madness which caused that alignment.

San Diego's airport, on the other hand, has the a bustling restaurant district, an interstate with frequent bumper-to-bumper traffic, and a dense residential neighborhood all within a mile off one end of the runway -- and a popular shopping area, an elementary school, and a high school within just over a mile from the other end. In addition, the terrain rises in both directions (so sharply on one side that planes can…

Agreed, and clearly there’s a bunch of much safer options. The north island air station base is close and almost comically better.

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#270

Post by fullstop »

amelius wrote: post #266
fullstop wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a young girl who survived the crash of Asiana flight 214, but was run over by a firetruck because she was covered in extinguisher foam.

> Later investigations concluded that Ye was already dead from severe injuries caused by being ejected from the aircraft. from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214

Wow, TIL. Thanks for pointing that out!
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