Some people can't see mental images • Hacker News Board

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#261

Post by kraftman » Thu, Oct 30, 2025, 10:29 PM UTC

agentcoops wrote: post #257

Sharlin wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Problem is that there's actually a spectrum of vividity of mental imagery, but in popular discussion it's always seen as a binary on/off thing. An old post by Scott Alexander (16+ years, mind blown) discusses this, long before the term "aphantasia" became a thing [1]. There was a debate about what "imagination" actually means already in the late 1800s; some people were absolutely certain that it was just a metap…

Comically, though, programming communities really seem to have a statistical over representation of both aphantasics and hyperphantasics. One of these articles comes out every few years and I've witnessed at numerous workplaces how quickly a large portion of the engineers realize they're aphantasic and everyone else is aghast that they can't rotate complete architectural diagrams etc. That said, it really is binary o…

I'm not sure its binary, I feel like ive gotten worse at it with age, and for some reason I find it harder with my head sideways.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#262

Post by woopwoop » Thu, Oct 30, 2025, 10:33 PM UTC

agentcoops wrote: post #251

andy99 wrote: post #7

I’ve read tons of these and still have no idea if I have aphantasia or not. I can’t understand whether people just have different ways of describing what’s in their minds eye or if there’s really a fundamental difference.

There is really a fundamental difference as many studies now have shown---and I can attest from personal experience. Honestly, if you have to ask the question there's a pretty high chance you are: everyone at some level believes that their own inner experience generalizes to the rest of humanity, but it's those with aphantasia who thereby believe that everyone else's description is just a manner of speaking ("they, l…

Are you saying that a non-aphantasic person can recall the eye color of everyone in their office?

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#263

Post by baby » Thu, Oct 30, 2025, 10:35 PM UTC

zephyrthenoble wrote: post #60

I think an interesting different way to talk about aphantasia is not, "Can you see an apple when you close your eyes" but more along the linked of, "Can you mentally edit the visual reality you see?" A common exercise while being in the back seat of a car while I was young was to imagine someone in a skateboard riding along the power lines on the side of the road, keeping pace with our car. It's not literally overrid…

That's what i used to do too!!

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#264

Post by dominick-cc » Thu, Oct 30, 2025, 10:39 PM UTC

baby wrote: post #263

zephyrthenoble wrote: post #60

I think an interesting different way to talk about aphantasia is not, "Can you see an apple when you close your eyes" but more along the linked of, "Can you mentally edit the visual reality you see?" A common exercise while being in the back seat of a car while I was young was to imagine someone in a skateboard riding along the power lines on the side of the road, keeping pace with our car. It's not literally overrid…

That's what i used to do too!!

Same but with rollerblades

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#265

Post by jdshaffer » Thu, Oct 30, 2025, 10:41 PM UTC

zephyrthenoble wrote: post #60

I think an interesting different way to talk about aphantasia is not, "Can you see an apple when you close your eyes" but more along the linked of, "Can you mentally edit the visual reality you see?" A common exercise while being in the back seat of a car while I was young was to imagine someone in a skateboard riding along the power lines on the side of the road, keeping pace with our car. It's not literally overrid…

Mine was a little 4-wheeled buggy riding along the guardrails as we drove. Really cool to see other people had similar imaginations!

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#266

Post by Matterless » Thu, Oct 30, 2025, 10:44 PM UTC

I don't know why I'm surprised every time to see so many people astounded in the comments every time another of these articles come out. I guess I thought by now this phenomenon would be more common knowledge... I'm a non-seer and a non-self speaker. That is, I do not have any clear monologue whatsoever, nor can I visualize anything at all. However, I have a pretty great memory, just not for the experience of things, but instead only the circumstances, the trivia, the conclusions, and all of those can be very granular.

Words exist for me in the space beyond my lips, or my fingertips; what that feels like, in the moment, is that it is the act of externalization of words which makes them come into being, but not for a moment are they ever out of my control.

I can't remember the sound of my mother's voice. Not really. Of course if I heard it in a recording it would be as recognizable as any voice, and in fact when I watch animated shows, like classic King of the Hill for example, I'm extremely good at picking out all the celebrity voices and I'm often surprised that I can identify a voice I didn't know that I knew.

I used to have an internal monologue. I used to be able to picture things. That all went away in my teens. Not only can I somewhat remember what that was like, I'm able to experience vivid internal pictures and internal sounds sometimes in the moments just before I'm fully asleep. It doesn't happen very frequently, but it's enjoyable when it does.

And that's it. If you have any questions for thisaphantasic non-self-speaker, have at it.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#267

Post by kgwxd » Thu, Oct 30, 2025, 10:46 PM UTC

runekaagaard wrote: post #176

Thats me to a tee. I also don't have a inner dialogue when thinking through a problem:)

> I also don't have a inner dialogue...

I wonder if some people grow to develop an inner monologue, but also immediately start developing an ability to silence it, to the point they don't have to try.

Mine is basically always on, and it can be problematic.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#268

Post by jibbit » Thu, Oct 30, 2025, 10:48 PM UTC

If you could see a photographic-quality image in your mind, you could answer questions about it the way you’d answer questions about a photograph in front of you. 'what’s written on the sign?' 'how many windows?' That's photographic memory. Since that’s not real, the 'normal visualization' everyone's comparing themselves to doesn’t exist either. Yet we keep treating as credible people who assert what others experience based on not experiencing it themselves. This is epistemically bankrupt.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#269

Post by BrandoElFollito » Thu, Oct 30, 2025, 10:48 PM UTC

kraftman wrote: post #261

agentcoops wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comically, though, programming communities really seem to have a statistical over representation of both aphantasics and hyperphantasics. One of these articles comes out every few years and I've witnessed at numerous workplaces how quickly a large portion of the engineers realize they're aphantasic and everyone else is aghast that they can't rotate complete architectural diagrams etc. That said, it really is binary o…

I'm not sure its binary, I feel like ive gotten worse at it with age, and for some reason I find it harder with my head sideways.

For me this is the other way round. When I was a student (physics) I had a very, for a lack of a better word, "practical" visualization in my head - what I needed to understand what I was studying. There was a lot of maths too, visualized.

Today, 30 years later, I have vivid representations of calligraphy or art, especially when I fall asleep. I fall asleep within at worst minutes so I cannot really take full pleasure of watching these ilages and during the day I am too surrounded by sources of sound, images etc. to meaningfully repeat the exercise.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#270

Post by markhahn » Thu, Oct 30, 2025, 10:50 PM UTC

tbabb wrote: post #182

bigyikes wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve interrogated people about this but can never get a straight answer. —— “So you can really see things in your head when your eyes are closed?” Yeah! “And it’s as though you’re seeing the object in front of you?” Yeah, you don’t have that? “So it’s like you’re really seeing it? It’s the sensation of sight?“ Well… it’s kind of different. I’m not really seeing it. —— …and around we go. Personally, I can see images w…

Here is some context: Early in the aphantasia discourse, someone asked a group I was in to do a mental exercise: Imagine an apple. Can you tell what color it is? What variety? Can you tell the lighting? Is it against a background? Does it have a texture? Imagine cutting into it. And so on. For me, not only was the color, variety, lighting, and texture crystal clear, but I noticed that when I mentally "cut into" the a…

but are those details fabricated on demand?

I don't have any trouble following your path of increased detail, but if someone says "imagine an apple", I get a vaguely apple-shaped, generally redish object (I like cosmic crisp), which only becomes detailed if I "navigate my mental eye" closer.