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Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

bbc.com

261–270 of 537 posts

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#261
post #245
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cause in this context specifically refers to the employee having done something wrong or illegal and means the employee is guilty of misconduct.

It is very rare for someone that is fired to be "guilty of misconduct," unless you consider poor performance misconduct.

In Britain we have quite strong employment laws and a bit less of a ruthless corporate culture, so in many sectors it's fairly uncommon for people to be terminated for poor performance, so I suspect "misconduct" is a higher percentage of overall firings here.

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These aren't "job losses", these are "firings". While both terms mean someone no longer has a job, they differ in cause and implication. Firing is when employer terminates someone for cause, i.e. employee did something wrong or didn't meet expectations. Job loss is a broader term, simply means the person no longer has a job, for any reason, but typically layoffs, downsizing, restructuring, plant closure, or being f…

Why is downsizing and an employee’s role no longer being cost effective for the business not considered “cause” for firing?

With cause think crimes or near crimes. Sexually harassment of a coworker, taking things from the warehouse...

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#264

I worked at AOL back when they did quarterly "staff reductions". They would go and hire lots of them right back; it was an accounting trick. Never mind the fact that families were affected and employees were constantly stressed near the end of every quarter. Those things don't matter, quarterly numbers do when growth has stalled.

Never mind the fact that families were affected and employees were constantly stressed near the end of every quarter. It's this sort of thing that has me re-thinking the fairness of employees giving employers the customary (in the United States) two week notice before leaving. Employees don't get two weeks notice before being fired without cause. It's supposed to be because replacing an employee is so difficult for t…

For layoffs like this, employers typically give out two months of severance, so I'm not sure what you're whining about.

Of course if you're willing to burn bridges with your employer, there's nothing stopping you from quitting immediately. Have at it.

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest "pretend" is where spokesmen, spin doctors, and sycophants for the plutocrat class have somehow convinced the 99% that stocks going up makes more jobs for the little people.

SP500 is flat this year when you account for loss of purchasing power of the US dollar: https://ycharts.com/indices/%5ESPXEUR

No it's not:

https://ycharts.com/indices/%5ESPXCAD

https://ycharts.com/indices/%5ESPXJPY

https://ycharts.com/indices/%5ESPXCNY

Hmm, might have you cherry-picked some data?

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really sure how this fits with Amazon's corporate culture. I thought all of the dead wood good pip'ed out of there on an ongoing basis. If people are surviving that then who are are the people being ejected? Unprofitable areas or new products which didn't pan out?

My theory is that when an organization descends into a cycle of repetitive downsizings, it inevitably leads to people focusing more on protecting their jobs than on business value. By the process of natural selection, the people who survive such rounds of firings are the ones with the political skills to survive them. Some of those guys will be star performers, but most will simply be politicians. Over time, this pro…

My company’s been through layoffs/reorgs every 3–6 months for three years. One thing is true: performance management happens faster. Many chronic low performers were laid off, and a few “too many cooks” problems were resolved. Those benefits are real and genuine.

But it’s a mistake to assume the remainder is automatically high‑performer‑only. Three patterns I’ve seen:

1) People with options leave first. If you can find a stable, supportive org at similar pay, you go. That’s often your top performers. We've lost some truly amazing people who left because they were simply not willing to tolerate working here anymore. Being absolutely ruthless in getting rid of low performers is honestly not worth it when you also lose the people who truly move the needle on creating new products, etc. If you make a mistake and get rid of some people who were talented high-performers, trust is instantly gone. The remaining high-performers now know that they may also be a target, and so they won't trust you and they'll leave whenever they can. And when you're axing 10k+ people, you're absolutely going to make mistakes.

2) The survivors change. Trust and empathy plummet. Incentives tilt toward optics and defensiveness, and managers start competing on visible ruthlessness. You can keep the lights on, but actually trying to innovate in this environment is too scary and risky.

3) In an atmosphere of fear, people who are willing to be genuinely dishonest and manipulative -- and who are good enough at it to get away with it -- have a serious competitive advantage. I've seen good, compassionate leaders go from a healthy willingness to make tough decisions on occasion to basically acting like complete psychopaths. Needless to say, that's extremely corrosive to meaningful output. While you could argue that skillful dishonesty is an individual advantage regardless of climate, an environment of repeat layoffs strongly incentivizes this behavior by reducing empathy, rewarding "do whatever it takes to win" behavior, etc.

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#267
post #12

Once a company moves on to recurring, large-scale layoffs justified by vague corporate Mumbo-Jumbo, I think it is safe to assume it is a "day 2" company.

Don't worry, when ZIRP returns, they'll be a day 1 company again.

People mistook ZIRP for genius for 25 years.

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google tried this and gave up, as it didn’t work out[1]. For now, there’s a lot of focus on automating software dev jobs, but I think companies are just starting to realize automation will thin the management layers as well. [1] https://bpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/sites.psu.edu/dist/3/50375/fil...

Yuck, what even is that website? Someone pays for this?

Ha - sorry about that. Edited my comment to reference the original HBR paper rather than the Inc magazine silliness.

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Behavior is shaped by incentives. Countries used to be overwhelmingly autocratic - often ruled by hereditary dictators called kings. People realized unchecked power will always lead to abuse and overthrew them. Companies are overwhelmingly autocratic (cooperatives being exceedingly rare to the point most people don't know about their existence) - often rules by hereditary dictators called owners. But you can't legall…

The US kind of does in that at least in spirit if the government violates the constitution we have this 2nd Amendment and plenty of moral precedent from the founders. It’s in the Declaration of Independence too which, in my view, is just the first page of the Constitution. The 0th Amendment if you will. Related to your second point about autocracy - I mean the good thing is you can, today, go start a company with the…

> if the government violates the constitution we have this 2nd Amendment and plenty of moral precedent from the founders.

Yeah? How's that working out right now, when the government is unquestionably violating the Constitution left and right?

Re: Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sincerely suspect the BBC would only ever use "fired"/"firings" if the employees were being dismissed for conduct reasons, since that's the common usage in British English. I've been let go -- indeed, I've lost my job (it's the employees who suffer job losses, not the employer) -- but I've never been fired.

"Firing" is becoming a bit more common in Britain, but still sounds like an Americanism to my British ears. I would use "sacking" for performance related termination, and "losing ones job" in all other cases. I suspect BBC would use the same.

"Made redundant" is another term for the latter.
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