Live data from Hacker News

Tesla reveals Supercharger network, Free Fill Ups

engadget.com

261–270 of 281 posts

Re: Tesla reveals Supercharger network, Free Fill Ups

#261
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, electric cars are never going to be completely practical for people with a daily commute beyond 150 miles or so. But if you're commuting 3 hours a day total, you have bigger issues with your life, to be honest. Move closer to where you commute!

I'd say a 150+ mile daily commute isn't practical :)

Miles aren't really the deal breaker - it's the time.

I had a 130 mile commute in the 90s in Arkansas that took me.. 130ish minutes. Now I have a 32 mile commute that takes around 2 hours and is 15 miles driving, BART for 35ish minutes, and walking for 20 minutes.

Re: Tesla reveals Supercharger network, Free Fill Ups

#262
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>If Tesla doesn't let others to use their connector It must be the other way around. If you want free power, design your car to use their connector standards.

Well, you can't get the free power if Tesla legally prevents you from using the connector because they're looking to create a near-term advantage. That's the key. My comment was that Tesla would be harming themselves by not allowing others to use it. Others would come up with a standard and now you'd have all these Tesla vehicles with a non-standard connector.

> Well, you can't get the free power if Tesla legally prevents you from using the connector because they're looking to create a near-term advantage. That's the key.

If I were running Tesla, I'd let my competitors' cars come and charge at the station, then sell them lunch and snacks.

Re: Tesla reveals Supercharger network, Free Fill Ups

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out that, among other advantages for electric cars, they can carry more energy than hydrogen cars when you take the efficiency of transferring kinetic energy to the car into account. There was an interview with Elon Musk where he scoffed at the use of hydrogen and the use of fuel cells.

The advantage of hydrogen lies in the speed of refueling, which is the main disadvantage of electric cars.

There's always battery swap-out. The problem with that is infrastructure cost, though.

Seems to me that the Supercharger stations are getting the time down to 30 minutes through parallelism. If one could bring component costs down even more, one could have more parallelism. What about 15 or 10 minute charging times? I'm going to guess that plans are in place to exploit some serious economics of scale when they start building $30,000 cars.

Once you have autonomous cars, this opens up the possibility of "battery trucks" once can rendezvous with on the highway to recharge without stopping.

Re: Tesla reveals Supercharger network, Free Fill Ups

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out that, among other advantages for electric cars, they can carry more energy than hydrogen cars when you take the efficiency of transferring kinetic energy to the car into account. There was an interview with Elon Musk where he scoffed at the use of hydrogen and the use of fuel cells.

The advantage of hydrogen lies in the speed of refueling, which is the main disadvantage of electric cars.

There's always battery swap-out. The problem with that is infrastructure cost, though.

Seems to me that the Supercharger stations are getting the time down to 30 minutes through parallelism. If one could bring component costs down even more, one could have more parallelism. What about 15 or 10 minute charging times? I'm going to guess that plans are in place to exploit some serious economics of scale when they start building $30,000 cars.

Once you have autonomous cars, this opens up the possibility of "battery trucks" once can rendezvous with on the highway to recharge without stopping.

Re: Tesla reveals Supercharger network, Free Fill Ups

#265
post #210
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar will hardly be efficient enough, unless you'd have a whole solar farm beside each station... Also add maintenance of all those batteries and I bet you'd have a really hard time to motivate solar for economical reasons.

According to the article it sounds like the devices are hooked up to the grid, but use solar effectively to offset the cost - Musk claim they will feed more energy into the grid than they'll take out while charging cars.

The solar component is a stunt. Electricity is fungible. How about putting the solar plants where they work well (mountaintop? desert?) and the charging stations can just hook to the grid. Then they can get their electricity from any convenient source (local nuke plant for instance).

The argument about 'free solar' is almost an oxymoron. That electricity costs more per kwh than most any other source.

Re: Tesla reveals Supercharger network, Free Fill Ups

#266
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the article it sounds like the devices are hooked up to the grid, but use solar effectively to offset the cost - Musk claim they will feed more energy into the grid than they'll take out while charging cars.

The solar component is a stunt. Electricity is fungible. How about putting the solar plants where they work well (mountaintop? desert?) and the charging stations can just hook to the grid. Then they can get their electricity from any convenient source (local nuke plant for instance). The argument about 'free solar' is almost an oxymoron. That electricity costs more per kwh than most any other source.

It is not a stunt. It is a direct counter to the anti-EV argument "Electricity is made from fossil fuels anyway, so by driving an EV you are just shifting the source of pollution to the power plant."

Tesla is attacking every single anti-EV argument in a very deliberate way and most of the attacks are strong successes.

Re: Tesla reveals Supercharger network, Free Fill Ups

#267
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yah, but those people won't be using refined gasoline. It uses alot of electricity just to refine a gallon of gas.

According to this web page: http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/2012/03/21/what-makes-up... It takes about $0.20 to refine a gallon of gas, so ~2kWh/gal. Except, It obviously actually takes less electricity than that, because there are other costs to refining. Not a bad investment in energy terms, when a gallon of gasoline contains ~36.6kWh worth of energy.

Don't forget the cost in electricity of finding deposits, mining them, transporting the pre-refined gas, transporting the post-refined gas, and lobbying Congress.

Re: Tesla reveals Supercharger network, Free Fill Ups

#268
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solar component is a stunt. Electricity is fungible. How about putting the solar plants where they work well (mountaintop? desert?) and the charging stations can just hook to the grid. Then they can get their electricity from any convenient source (local nuke plant for instance). The argument about 'free solar' is almost an oxymoron. That electricity costs more per kwh than most any other source.

It is not a stunt. It is a direct counter to the anti-EV argument "Electricity is made from fossil fuels anyway, so by driving an EV you are just shifting the source of pollution to the power plant." Tesla is attacking every single anti-EV argument in a very deliberate way and most of the attacks are strong successes.

It IS a stunt, in the sense that the solar feature is technically independent of the charging stations. The message is clear, but there is no necessary link between the solar elements and the place you go with your electric car to charge up. Placing them there is probably a worse decision that placing them optimally. That's makes it stunt.

And there is also a strong argument that the manufacturing and installation costs of solar farms has a long payback. They are a battery in that sense - energy invested in them slowly comes back out. PRobably petro-energy. So intially solar is a net negative in eco-impact. Same with wind.

Re: Tesla reveals Supercharger network, Free Fill Ups

#269
post #168

I would say Elon Musk is the greatest entrepreneur of the past century - even more so than Steve Jobs. He simultaneously created three separate companies, all in extremely complex industries, and combined all of them into one overall strategy. The precision manufacturing they learned with Space X is incorporated into the Tesla S. Their aim is to make the Model S the most reliable and problem-free vehicle due to this…

I'm hoping his next big project, HyperLoop, lives up to his ambitions for it. Being able to travel to any city in the continental U.S. in about 30 minutes will permanently change the entire economy and daily life for everyone.

I have some thoughts on this. They don't really have a central theme but I love to think about this stuff:

- Pneumatic / maglev hybrid seems like the optimal choice. With magnetic levitation and no air resistance, extreme speeds are possible.

- Initially I thought that the ideal mass transit system would allow people to carry their cars with them. The idea is that people often have to choose between the benefits of mass transit and the loss of freedom that comes with not having their car once they reach their destination. But recent innovations lead me to think this won't be necessary. I can easily see a time when all cars are autonomous and you can call one up on demand (as others in this thread have pointed out as well). Therefore, it's easy to conceive of a time when you can hop on the HyperLoop, pull out your smartphone, pick the destination, and tell the system you want a (semi-)autonomous vehicle waiting for you when you arrive.

- To make this feasible, we HAVE to get the cost down. It shouldn't take a trillion dollars or more to build this network across the US. The rest of the points will be about that.

- The system should be built, as much as possible, out of a series of standardized components that "snap together". I'm envisioning a "series of tubes" sections that are straightforwardly snapped end to end with standard mounts to hang them or put them on pylons. There would be different lengths, curve radii, etc depending on how you needed to route the track.

- These "tubelets" themselves should be constructible on-site or close to it, similar to how concrete for roads is made on-site. The idea is to minimize shipping costs as much as possible.

- Ultimately, it would be nice if we could employ molecular nano-assembly and have the tubes build themselves, but as a compromise, many parts of the construction could be handled by autonomous or semi-autonomous moving construction rigs that can set themselves up, perform most of the construction work, then tear themselves down and drive off. Again, the more standardized and "Lego like" you can make the components, the easier this would be.

- Each section should have solar panels, a way of storing energy, and a way of giving or receiving energy to nearby sections. Ideally, this would all be connected with a "master bus" that would, when necessary, send power to sections of the loop that haven't had decent sunlight in a while, etc. In general, the idea would be to keep the system as self-sufficient as possible, but have full failover when needed.

- We'd also need to solve the cultural-political problems involved in getting all the landowners to agree to run elevated track over their property.

Thinking about the last two problems, an interesting solution presents itself:

- Why not partner with the power grid organizations and use the existing transmission line right-of-way to run much of the "long haul" routes? They already have the land, they have made wide "lanes" through brush and other unforgiving terrain to run the lines, and there's the power when you need it!

- You might even consider slowly replacing many of the transmission lines with just the tunnels. These tunnels would transmit the power and also help generate it with solar panels, taking only what the need to run the line and giving back everything else. This SHOULD be a massive net positive gain. The only downside I can see would be people that consider two sections of elevated tubes to be a massively worse eye-sore than the existing wires. But surely that would be solvable?

Re: Tesla reveals Supercharger network, Free Fill Ups

#270

I would say Elon Musk is the greatest entrepreneur of the past century - even more so than Steve Jobs. He simultaneously created three separate companies, all in extremely complex industries, and combined all of them into one overall strategy. The precision manufacturing they learned with Space X is incorporated into the Tesla S. Their aim is to make the Model S the most reliable and problem-free vehicle due to this…

Interestingly I was expecting him to have much better presentation/communication skills though. I guess being an successful entrepreneur has nothing to do with that.

He's actually gotten better over time. But there's another side to this. He has this kind of humble "aww shucks" way about him that I and I suspect many people find endearing.

I've said this before, but I think Mr. Musk is one of a handful of "altruistic capitalists" that, if we are to stay with capitalism as a system, we desperately need more of. His somewhat awkward but "gee I could imagine playing XBox with him" style goes well with that image.

Post reply on HN