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Foreign hackers breached a US nuclear weapons plant via SharePoint flaws

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Re: Foreign hackers breached a US nuclear weapons plant via SharePoint flaws

#261

Post by lkjdsklf »

necovek wrote: post #95
stackskipton wrote: post #75

As usual with all these types of posts, people go "HA HA, MICRO$OFT SUCKS" without understanding business practices that keep them afloat. Don't use Exchange? Cool, what should we use instead? Does it support 15 people all the way up to 150000 people? I used to run Exchange cluster for 70k people, is there other mail software out there complete with non-shared disk redundancy? Where the users connect to single endpoi…

I see you build a case for traditional MS product in Exchange, yet this issue is about Sharepoint. Just like with Windows, Microsoft has built a moat with Exchange, but the question is why do all the companies buy into their full ecosystem, especially for anything relating to web technologies (you even bring up Exchange Web Services), because this they do really badly, and Sharepoint seems to be the worst. However, I…

Comparing postfix/dovecot to exchange is grossly misunderstanding what’s happening

If you’re using exchange/outlook, you’re using Active Directory.

The only real “altetnative” is the reimplementation in samba v4.. calling that an alternative is a bit of a stretch. And it barely scales to one user let alone millions like AD can

Re: Foreign hackers breached a US nuclear weapons plant via SharePoint flaws

#262

Post by bawolff »

stackskipton wrote: post #75

As usual with all these types of posts, people go "HA HA, MICRO$OFT SUCKS" without understanding business practices that keep them afloat. Don't use Exchange? Cool, what should we use instead? Does it support 15 people all the way up to 150000 people? I used to run Exchange cluster for 70k people, is there other mail software out there complete with non-shared disk redundancy? Where the users connect to single endpoi…

> Sharepoint with another 2 RCEs. Not shocked, the software is terrible. However, it's only software that will stand up under load and let us shard it easily. All open-source software is one of those, runs fine in Homelab, likely falls down under load. Few Open Source Developers want to work on this stuff which I get because it's tedious work interfacing with computer illiterate end users. I'd rather chug sewage then do this work for free.

Isn't sharepoint just a file share server? (Ive never used it)

I'm sure solutions like samba or an ftp server hold up fine under the load. Its really more a UI question.

Re: Foreign hackers breached a US nuclear weapons plant via SharePoint flaws

#263

Post by [deleted] »

curvaturearth wrote: post #72
VladVladikoff wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I need to touch anything made my Microsoft lately I am met with multiple levels of glitchyness, straight up bugs, most frustratingly it’s so excruciatingly slow. Recently I tried to configure a new subdomain to handle mail on 365 and even finding their DKIM configuration section was a mission. Once finding it, I learned that their DNS check fails to properly handle subdomains for email, so you have to put…

But wait! 35% of Microsoft's code is now written by AI so surely it will get better

[deleted]

Re: Foreign hackers breached a US nuclear weapons plant via SharePoint flaws

#264

Post by swarnie »

bawolff wrote: post #262
stackskipton wrote: post #75

As usual with all these types of posts, people go "HA HA, MICRO$OFT SUCKS" without understanding business practices that keep them afloat. Don't use Exchange? Cool, what should we use instead? Does it support 15 people all the way up to 150000 people? I used to run Exchange cluster for 70k people, is there other mail software out there complete with non-shared disk redundancy? Where the users connect to single endpoi…

> Sharepoint with another 2 RCEs. Not shocked, the software is terrible. However, it's only software that will stand up under load and let us shard it easily. All open-source software is one of those, runs fine in Homelab, likely falls down under load. Few Open Source Developers want to work on this stuff which I get because it's tedious work interfacing with computer illiterate end users. I'd rather chug sewage then…

Find me an FTP server which integrates with your entire productivity, communication and collaboration suites easily enough that an admin can run a 50k person company off of it and equally Doris from accounts can manage to get some work done.

I hate SharePoint, but i use/administer it every day and it works, mostly.

Exposing it to the internet is a mistake. Why anyone would do that is beyond me.

Re: Foreign hackers breached a US nuclear weapons plant via SharePoint flaws

#265

Post by necovek »

lkjdsklf wrote: post #261
necovek wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you build a case for traditional MS product in Exchange, yet this issue is about Sharepoint. Just like with Windows, Microsoft has built a moat with Exchange, but the question is why do all the companies buy into their full ecosystem, especially for anything relating to web technologies (you even bring up Exchange Web Services), because this they do really badly, and Sharepoint seems to be the worst. However, I…

Comparing postfix/dovecot to exchange is grossly misunderstanding what’s happening If you’re using exchange/outlook, you’re using Active Directory. The only real “altetnative” is the reimplementation in samba v4.. calling that an alternative is a bit of a stretch. And it barely scales to one user let alone millions like AD can

You can trivially set up Postfix/Dovecot with LDAP.

Re: Foreign hackers breached a US nuclear weapons plant via SharePoint flaws

#266

Post by epistasis »

coolestguy wrote: post #165
fujigawa wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gonna be honest, you sound like a problem employee. The companies not using Microsoft, are using Google. Which in my experience is equally or measurably worse. Just personal data points, but every avowed Microsoft hater I've ever worked with has been... difficult. Like a-drag-on-the-team-because-he-refuses-to-use-company-tools difficult. Edit: How does an aged post on this site go from +4 to -1 in the span of a f…

"using the biggest software suite tailored for offices/IT environments is a red flag" honestly the things i read here sometimes hahaha

The idea that the most commonly purchased thing in the market is of mediocre quality should not be hard to accept, and neither should the idea that some people only want tk work with what they, personally, consider to be the best.

Re: Foreign hackers breached a US nuclear weapons plant via SharePoint flaws

#267

Post by necovek »

stackskipton wrote: post #220
xxs wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Perhaps that was meant ironically to satirise mediocre enterprise thinking? It's a serious post, unfortunately.

Yep, my point was “What is the alternative besides other enterprise cloud like GSuite and others?”

FWIW, GSuite seems to do fewer things, but at least does them better (think nested groups and calendar invitations for parent groups: adding/removing people does not update future events with MS tools).

But at the same time, within an org of 150k people, we have separate people to support our Teams usge, our Outlook usage, our AD/Entra usage: with the same number of "sysadmins", could we do the same with open source stack?

I don't know, but I know the bugs I see with MS365.

Re: Foreign hackers breached a US nuclear weapons plant via SharePoint flaws

#268

Post by dijit »

fujigawa wrote: post #145
Etheryte wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know man, you're gonna have a very tough crowd if you're gonna try and convince anyone that Teams is as good as Google Meet.

They are all equally crap. I'm convinced the people designing collaboration tools don't have to use them on a daily basis.

Equally?

Definitely not.

Maybe it can be argued that it depends on how you use it, but meet is so far and away better for video calls and screen sharing, its not even funny.

Jitsi is also an incredible improvement, and it is self hostable and free.

Teams is likely the worst software that a company will force on all its employees- with that in mind, I guess some people can get stockholm syndrome? Some people who only jump from MSFT shops literally don’t know that there’s anything better. They went from Communicator to Lync to Skype for Business and now to Teams- and Teams is better than those just about.

Re: Foreign hackers breached a US nuclear weapons plant via SharePoint flaws

#269

Post by dijit »

rcbdev wrote: post #249
rewgs wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How does an aged post on this site go from +4 to -1 in the span of a few minutes? I just down-voted you, so I contributed to that. OP bent over backwards to make it clear that he didn't mean any offense, and you opened with "you sound like a problem employee."

But, he truly does. That is not because they have caused any offence, it's just that this pattern of behaviour may indicate similar tendencies in other parts of the tech stack. For example, if OP for some reason stops liking a maintainer of, say, RabbitMQ or PostgreSQL, they might be penetrant about switching a finished project to a different stack without any tangible reason, causing completely unnecessary headaches…

Using collaboration and productivity software as a proxy for how the company thinks about collaboration and productivity is, good, actually.

He didn’t say he doesn’t like Satya or Gates or whatever, he was clear that he doesn’t like the solution.

I just went back to a microsoft shop, and honestly while the company is great you can feel how the communication is stilted compared to my previous company. Those little edges, warts, unreliable loading moments and awkward loading times all sum up to people being disincentivised to create, edit and consume documents or even to chat.

This inexplicably drives meeting culture as async communication just doesn’t happen. I totally understand why its primarily MSFT shops that have RTO mandates.

Re: Foreign hackers breached a US nuclear weapons plant via SharePoint flaws

#270

Post by eterm »

cachius wrote: post #260
eterm wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've managed to mess up sharepoint even worse lately. I went there to try to find where company meetings got recorded to. I went to my sharepoint bookmark, which weirdly is www.office.com after some previous nightmare rebrand. Except what used to be the way into your sharepoint files, is now just a full page copilot screen with no hint of where the fuck your files are. Even though you've been visiting this bookmar…

Did you find it eventually?

Yes, via an old way into the system that specified the correct subdomain and folder path that I found from an old teams conversation.

I've no idea how to find the "proper" way into the system.

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