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Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

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Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They definitely won't idle out- if they idle out, it'll take on the order of up to 60 seconds to load the model back into VRAM, depending on the model. That's an eternity for a request. I highly doubt they will timeout any model they serve.

> That's an eternity for a request. I highly doubt they will timeout any model they serve. That's what easing functions are for. Let's say 10 GPUs are in use. You keep another 3 with the model loaded. If demand increases slowly you slowly increase your headroom. If demand increases rapidly, you also increase rapidly. The correct way to do this is more complicated and you should model based on your usage history, but…

That's only if you're expecting 10 GPUs in use. They're dealing with ~1 GPU in use for a model, just sitting there. Alibaba has a very long tail of old models that barely anyone uses anymore, and yet they still serve.

Here's a quote from the paper above:

> Given a list of M models to be served, our goal is to minimize the number of GPU instances N required to meet the SLOs for all models through auto-scaling, thus maximizing resource usage. The strawman strategy, i.e., no auto-scaling at all, reserves at least one dedicated instance for each model, leading to N = O(M)

For example, Qwen2 72b is rarely used these days. And yet it will take up 2 of their H20 gpus (with 96GB VRAM) to serve, at the bare minimum, assuming that they don't quantize the BF16 down to FP8 (and I don't think they would, although other providers probably would). And then there's other older models, like the Qwen 2.5, Qwen 2, Qwen 1.5, and Qwen 1 series models. They all take up VRAM if the endpoint is active!

Alibaba cannot easily just timeout these models from VRAM, even if they only get 1 request per hour.

That's the issue. Their backlog of models take up a large amount of VRAM, and yet get ZERO compute most of the time! You can easily use an easing function to scale up from 2 gpus to 200 gpus, but you cannot ever timeout the last 2 gpus that's serving the model.

If you read the paper linked above, it's actually quite interesting how Alibaba goes and solves this problem.

Meanwhile on the other hand, Deepseek solves the issue by just saying "fuck you, we're serving only our latest model and you can deal with it". They're pretty pragmatic about it at least.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But now the US is trying to be xenophobic like China, restrict tech import/export like China but compete against 10x population and lack of similar levels of internal strife and fissures. Do I infer correctly that you believe that China has less internal strife and fissures than the US has?

By perception of the population at least, yes. I mean, the US is literally on the verge of a civil war lol.

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Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#263
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think anti-immigrant rhetoric will have the most impact against the US. A lot of the people innovating on this stuff are being maligned and leaving in droves. Aside from geography, attracting talent from all over the world is the one edge the US has a nation over countries like China. But now the US is trying to be xenophobic like China, restrict tech import/export like China but compete against 10x population and…

China's greatest weakness is that their working-age population has already peaked and is in the process of plummeting, which will continue over the coming decades.

This is the era of automation. Will they run out of people first or run out of jobs first?

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US isn't slowing China anymore. China has an import ban on chips [1] so its irrelevant what the US does. [1]: https://www.cnbc.com/2025/09/17/nvidia-ceo-disappointed-afte...

The US is certainly slowing down China considerably. China would certainly not have an import ban on Blackwell GPUs if they were made available. And upstream, the ban on EUV and other high end semiconductor production equipment has severely limited china’s capacity to produce logic and DRAM (including HBM).

You severely underestimate what they can do with alternative tech paths. You don't have to chase nanometers for good AI system outcomes. Their current, and very viable, strategy is to build a ton of slower chips and to pump in a humongous amount of power. And to optimize the software stack, e.g. more efficient architectures. Unlike the west, they have a lot of cheap power (think solar panels in the desert) and excellent transmission. It also means they'll have to innovate on powder delivery and cooling systems to handle that sort of scale, but that's still easier than building EUV. Huawei has already done it with their phone from last year: they put in a more power-hungry chip, but they innovated hugely woth passive heat dissipation and bigger batteries, so the end product is still something consumers want. And with these Chinese AI models you're already seeing how they're reducing costs so they can run more on fewer chips.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#265
post #244
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much higher standards than European ones? Because the cars do sell there as well.

Yes. The EU focuses on safety of pedestrians, and the US focuses on safety of occupants. That's not to say a vehicle cannot do both well (see the many European vehicles sold in the US), but that is to say Chinese vehicles may not meet the US standards. The US has a lot of vehicle regulations that significantly differ from the EU market.

> Yes. The EU focuses on safety of pedestrians, and the US focuses on safety of occupants.

How can a car focus on the safety of pedestrian? Does it detect a pedestrian and fly away like a drone?

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#266
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The EU focuses on safety of pedestrians, and the US focuses on safety of occupants. That's not to say a vehicle cannot do both well (see the many European vehicles sold in the US), but that is to say Chinese vehicles may not meet the US standards. The US has a lot of vehicle regulations that significantly differ from the EU market.

> Yes. The EU focuses on safety of pedestrians, and the US focuses on safety of occupants. How can a car focus on the safety of pedestrian? Does it detect a pedestrian and fly away like a drone?

The tests include tests for the safety of the people hit by the car vs just for people inside the car.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's innovation relies on the stolen western IP, without it, China is nothing. Also USSR/Russia is no longer a scientific powerhouse that can supply China with some military innovation. A dictatorship combined with cheap labour it 100% guarantees that the country's innovation is stunted, no matter what the Chinese propaganda claims.

And the US has never stolen IP?

No, they haven't! https://apnews.com/general-news-b40414d22f2248428ce11ff36b88...

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#268

Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU used for serving unpopular models by 82% (emphasis mine) > 17.7 per cent of GPUs allocated to serve only 1.35 per cent of requests in Alibaba Cloud’s marketplace, the researchers found Instead of 1192 GPUs they now use 213 for serving those requests.

Doesnt sound right

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they are keeping up. i have been using just chinese models for the last 2 years. chatgpt/gemini/claude have marketing. there's nothing that you can do with those models that can't be done with deepseek, glm or kimi. if there is, do let us know.

They can't attract a large contingent of users. Because despite being able to do everything the big name models can do, they cannot do it as well. This aligns with the benchmarks as well; they benchmark great for what they are, but still bottom of the barrel when competing for "state of the art." And yes, it's great you daily Chinese models, but the vast majority of people try them, say "impressive", then go back to…

I'm not sure if you understood what OP meant by "marketing".

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Models take a lot of VRAM which is tightly coupled to the GPU so yeah, it's basically sitting there with the model waiting for use. I'm sure they probably do idle out but a few minutes of idle time is a lot of waste--possibly the full 82% mentioned. In this case they optimized by letting the GPUs load multiple models and sharing the load out by token.

They definitely won't idle out- if they idle out, it'll take on the order of up to 60 seconds to load the model back into VRAM, depending on the model. That's an eternity for a request. I highly doubt they will timeout any model they serve.

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