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Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

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Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#261

Post by rightbyte »

Aissen wrote: post #180
rightbyte wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is old is new again. My employer is so conservative and slow that they are forerunning this Local Cloud Edge Our Basement thing by just not doing anything.

As an infrastructure engineer (amongst other things), hard disagree here. I realize you might be joking, but a bit of context here: a big chunk of the success of Cloud in more traditional organizations is the agility that comes with it: (almost) no need to ask permission to anyone, ownership of your resources, etc. There is no reason that baremetal shouldn't provide the same customer-oriented service, at least for th…

Well ye it is more like I frame it as a joke but I do mean it.

I don't argue there aren't special cases for using fancy cloud vendors, though. But classical datacentre rentals get you almost always there for less.

Personally I like being able to touch and hear the computers I use.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#262

Post by atonse »

joshstrange wrote: post #128
CaptainOfCoit wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, Hetzners dedicated instances are only available in their German and Finnish data centers, not anywhere else sadly :/

This is correct, they only offer VPS in the US.

But are the VPSs also similarly much better performing than AWS?

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#263

Post by NDizzle »

mustaphah wrote: post #248
NDizzle wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think Devops is not required when you use cloud providers or something? Of course it is...

I meant +1 DevOps engineer dedicated to managing the added operational complexity.

Why would it be +1? The Devops duties that were performed on AWS are no longer being performed... wouldn't it simply shift to the new stack?

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#264

Post by chubot »

adamcharnock wrote: post #150

I cannot overstate the performance improvement of deploying onto bare metal. We typically see a doubling of performance, as well as extremely predictable baseline performance. This is down to several things: - Latency - having your own local network, rather than sharing some larger datacenter network fabric, gives around of order of magnitude reduced latency - Caches – right-sizing a deployment for the underlying har…

Does anyone have experience with say Linode and Digital Ocean performance versus AWS and GCE?

They still use VMs, but as far as I know they have simple reserved instances, not “cloud”-like weather?

Is the performance better and more predictable on large VPSes?

(edit: I guess a big difference is that VPS can have local NVMe that is persistent, whrereas EC2 local disk is ephemeral? )

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#265

Post by ripped_britches »

sharpfuryz wrote: post #241

AWS/GCP/Azure Cloud turns the audit beast into a house-cat: one IAM rule, one log stream, one firewall and etc. Otherwise, you need to fill out a lot of documents to prove that your bare metal is safe to host, for example, cardholder data.

Who could have guessed that servicing compliance requirements at scale would create such a good business model

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#266

Post by odie5533 »

radu_floricica wrote: post #215
rightbyte wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is old is new again. My employer is so conservative and slow that they are forerunning this Local Cloud Edge Our Basement thing by just not doing anything.

> What is old is new again. Over the years I tried occasionally to look into cloud, but it never made sense. A lot of complexity and significantly higher cost, for very low performance and a promise of "scalability". You virtually never need scalability so fast that you don't have time to add another server - and at baremetal costs, you're usually about a year ahead of the curve anyways.

Complexity? I've never set up a highly available Postgres and Redis cluster on dedicated hardware, but I can not imagine it's easier than doing it in AWS which is only a few clicks and I don't have to worry about OS upgrades and patches. Or a highly available load balancer with infinite scale.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#267

Post by esskay »

realitysballs wrote: post #222
adamcharnock wrote: post #150

I cannot overstate the performance improvement of deploying onto bare metal. We typically see a doubling of performance, as well as extremely predictable baseline performance. This is down to several things: - Latency - having your own local network, rather than sharing some larger datacenter network fabric, gives around of order of magnitude reduced latency - Caches – right-sizing a deployment for the underlying har…

Ya but then you need to pay for a team to maintain network and continually secure and monitor the server and update/patch. The salaries of those professionals , really only make sense for a certain sized organization. I still think small-midsized orgs may be better off in cloud for security / operations cost optimization.

You still need those same people even if you're running on a bunch of EC2 and RDS instances, they aren't magically 'safer'.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#268

Post by V__ »

breadislove wrote: post #19

Hetzner is really great until you try to scale with them. We started building our service on top of Hetzner and had couple 100s of VMs running and during peak time we had to scale them to over 1000 VMs. And here couple of problems started, you get pretty often IPs which are black listed, so if you try to connect to services hosted by Google, AWS like S3 etc. you can't reach them. Also at one point there were no VMs a…

This sound really intriguing, and I am really curious. What kind of service do you run where you need a 100s of VMs? Was there a reason for not going dedicated? Looking at their offering their biggest VM is (48 CPU, 192 GB RAM, 960 GB SSD). I can't even imagine using that much. Again, I'm really curious.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#269

Post by esskay »

dielll wrote: post #252

Only problem with Hetzner is that they don't seem to accept Accounts created from African countries. Tried creating an account with them twice from Kenya, and in both instances my account got blocked 5 minutes after creation with zero explanation. tried reaching out to support and got zero reply. I get it's their business and they can do as they please with it, however, maybe tell me before I create an account that y…

Hetzner is very cautious who they accept as a customer these days as the downside of being a low-cost hosting provider is you get a ton of signups from people looking to use it for seed boxes and other illegal activities.

It sucks for legitimate customers, but you can sometimes plead your case directly as long as you are willing to provide id and such, but ultimately like you say, it's their business.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#270

Post by HPsquared »

kitd wrote: post #253
radu_floricica wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is old is new again. Over the years I tried occasionally to look into cloud, but it never made sense. A lot of complexity and significantly higher cost, for very low performance and a promise of "scalability". You virtually never need scalability so fast that you don't have time to add another server - and at baremetal costs, you're usually about a year ahead of the curve anyways.

People are usually the biggest cost in any organisation. If you can run all your systems without the sysadmins & netadmins required to keep it all upright (especially at expensive times like weekends or run up to Black Friday/Xmas), you can save yourself a lot more than the extra it'll cost to get a cloud provider to do it all for you.

That's how they can get away with such seemingly high prices.
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